Walleye caught from 40 ft lesson in the "Bends"

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marlinhunter
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Walleye caught from 40 ft lesson in the "Bends"

Post by marlinhunter »

I just got back from fishing this weekend and was checking the boards when I saw this topic and maybe this info will help.
All creatures that breathe will experience the bends if not surfacing correctly. What is the bends? the bends is a condition that occurs when your lungs expand when resurfacing some of the gas in your lungs will dissolve into your blood stream. This is EXTREMLEY painful and if the bubbles find their way to your organs any of them you will be dead. At 33 ft. deep your lungs and fish experience twice the pressure we do when on the land at sixty feet four times and so on. The fastest a human can rise is 6 ft. a second where a shark can surface at sixty ft a second without the bends faster than that and they to will experience them. Walleye are no where near as quick as a shark and do not have the structure to protect there lungs from compression. Putting a hole in an organ will not stop the bubbles in the blood stream from damaging any other organs and will give the fish septsim (blood poisoning) from the bile in the organ you have ruptured. Please do not do this to any fish as it does not help. The best thing to do is leave Walleye alone deeper than 33 ft or bring them in REAL SLOW. Hope this helps to clear this up a bit more as more people need to be aware of this.
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dana
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Thanks

Post by dana »

good post sir..
yes,unless you are gonna eat em..
perhaps this should be put on other boards
directed at people who also fish for deep fall smallies..
and they do it down to 50+ft
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Post by steve-hamilton »

its all matter of 'opinion'.

i just recently heard from a walleye pro/guide that if your going to target walleye from 40' ish feet, to reel them in as fast as you can, as they are able to sustain themselves for a short period of time.

when i questioned this theory, he replied that walleye will attack baitfish on the surface from 40' down, and they are fine, as they do it so fast....

Just giving another side of the coin.

(btw, i was always under the impression that slower the better, but i was informed differently)

the best method is simply not to target them.

(what about if your running a bait 25' down, and you get a fish charge up to hit it from 45' down....what u supposed to do?)
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Walleye caught from forty ft. lesson in the "bends"

Post by marlinhunter »

That is a good idea about the bass and I think I will if I can find the board I will. I am fairly new to this area and had no idea that they fish for them that deep when they suspend in the fall. I hope people read this and take it serious as all creatures are able to get the bends. Happy fishing to all and keep our fish healthy!
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Walleye caught from 40 ft. lessons in the bends

Post by marlinhunter »

The reason why a fish doesn't get the bends while attack surfacing is they secrete any and all oxygen fron there body and will NEVER exceed the limit they may rise. Think of it as a bottle of pop. If you shake it and increase the pressure then open it as you release the pressure you get bubbles. All living things can rise at different levels when the fish is fighting and gasping for air you cannot effectively control their rising level and they begin to breathe. When lungs compress by pressure then the air in your lungs compress when you release the pressure rising the bubbles like your pop occur, and that is when it is dangerous. That's why don't target them as they will not be ready to rise. The fish breathe way to hard when fighting deep to consider this a good fishing pratice. Accidents happen and everyone has an opinion that's why this board is here. I am just letting everyone know how the bends work and yes they work the same in a fish just at different speeds. I would also talk to a diver as most fisherman have never had formal diving lessons in this area as facts can become blurred when someone knows "somethings" about a subject. Everyone has opinions let's just make them informed opinions. Happy fishing guys
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Post by wolfe »

Good information, Marlinhunter. Thx for taking the time to relay it. We were just talking about this a week or so ago.

W.
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Post by Eli »

I don't think it's possible for a fish's lungs to compress, seeing as how fish have no lungs.
People experience gaseous buildup in thier blood when they rise too far too fast, becasue the chest cavity starts to put pressure on the lungs preventing gas from exiting the bronchioles and being exhaled.
The fish's 'lungs' are, in fact, thier gills and they are not inclosed in any external cavity. So I don't imagine that fish experience any significant gas buildup in their blood as a result of being raised to the surface from a depth.

Don't salmon guys raise fish from 300+ feet and release them to fight another day?
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Walleye caught from 40 ft. lesson in the bends

Post by marlinhunter »

The gills extract oxygen placing it in the system. That is the problem pressurized system. This is why sharks have limits on how fast they surface attack. The bottom line is gas in a closed system that will experience massive pressure is susceptible to the bends. Does not have to have lungs as you and I. If it's got gas in the system under pressure and you release it suddenly then bubbles. Try it with a pop at your work desk today. Shake it up open it right away and if you don't get wet then you were right. Pop bottles don't have conventional "lungs" either. Yet you see the exact thing that happens with lungs. The c02 goes up the container gets smaller pressure increases then you hit the top where atmosphere sits at 14.5 to 14.7 psi then pop. That's it you can't argue with science. be as technical as people want the fact is still the same.
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Bends

Post by JVE »

I just did a search on fish bends and found the following:

Fish can and do get the bends, at least in one particular case I heard about. This happens around large hydroelectric dams where the water really gets churned up. The water mixing with the air will pick up nitrogen. It's nitrogen that is the culprit for the bends. If enough nitrogen gets picked up (nitrogen supersaturation it's called) then the fish will take it in through their gills. Like in humans, nitrogen bubbles will build up in bloodstream of fish to the point where the fish gets crippled.

Also, check out http://www.nserc.ca/news/stories/040714_e.htm
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Walleye caught from 40 ft. a lesson in the "bends"

Post by marlinhunter »

Thanx for checking up on this. Yes nitrogen is what causes the problem and hydro dams cause problems but, Any creature that survives off of oxygen will or can suffer after PROLONGED compression. You will here of bounce diving which was banned in the Navy in 1954 due to how dangerous it is. This is where a guy takes a human breath jumps in to depth and is yanked up immediately. It was used once upon a time to recover a diver or object that had fallen over at deck level. The idea is to get down attach a tag line or oxygen line to the object before the nitrogen from the held breath which is being extracted into the blood can build. I have seen men suffer from the bends it is not a nice thing. I didn't want to start a fight over this just letting you guys know how it actually works and marine animals due suffer from this. The longer under the more the risk.
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Post by eye-tracker »

I think this is topic that a Fisheries Biologist should comment and present some research data on. I have been told by a few MNR, DNR biologists to reel fish in quickly from depths and release them as fast as possible to assist in survival. Not sure if that addresses the issues of the bends but I do hope BIG Jim will share some of the scientific findings from Dr. Tufts a Physiologist at Queens.

Here is a Quote from the South Dakota Game, Fish and Parks Web site...
Should I reel in fish hooked in deep water quickly or slowly?
Fast! Contrary to popular belief, slowly reeling in a fish from deep water DOES NOT give a fish enough time to compensate for the change in pressure. Between 20 and 30 minutes may be needed for a fish to compensate for pressure differences between a depth of 30 ft and the surface. Instead, prolonging the time it takes to land and release a fish, increases its stress level. The tissues around the gas bladder are often capable of preventing the gas bladder from increasing in size for up to 5 minutes after the pressure outside of the fish decreases. Once a fish is in the boat, release it as quickly as possible to maximize its chance of surviving.
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marlinhunter
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Walleye caught from 40 ft lesson in the bends

Post by marlinhunter »

Big Jim was hoping to get the Queen's prof to help a little more with this as the Dr. is working on this. He said he has found that fish are effected like I said but, Hoping to have exact word posted from Dr. Like I said I know how they work on human exactly but they work a little different on fish but, not much. Once water less than 1 atmosphere you have to becareful of the bends.
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Post by steve-hamilton »

well, there's the man who gave me my info....but i wasn't going to post who it came from until the man himself piped up...

ET has quite a bit of Eye experience....so i tend to give him the benefit of the doubt, at least until something official is said.
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Hmmmm...

Post by Cancatchbass »

Some more quotes from our friends in South Dakota:

Is there any problem in releasing fish caught from deep water? What's deep water?

Generally, fish caught from depths 30 feet or greater should be considered as coming from deep water. From this depth, as fish are brought to the surface, the gases in their air bladder begin to expand placing pressure on their internal organs. The air bladder in some fish will be so expanded that it will cause their internal organs to extend out of the mouth. These fish are unable to swim beneath the surface. While other fish you may release after catching them from this depth appear to be O.K., often the internal damage caused to their other organs will take several hours or days to kill them.

Changes in Depth:

Fish have a gas bladder that enables them to adjust their buoyancy and depth, much like a submarine does. However, the gas bladder in walleye is not attached to the throat. Therefore, walleye can’t burp out extra gas in their bladder to quickly change buoyancy or depth. Pressure increases as water depth increases. At 30 ft deep, the pressure on a walleye is twice as great as at the surface. When walleye are brought to the surface from a depth of 30 ft, the gas in the bladder expands quickly, doubling in volume and putting severe pressure on internal organs. When travelling to the surface from 60-ft deep, the pressure change is so great that the gas bladder may stick out of the fish’s mouth, its eyes may bulge and gas bubbles may form in the blood vessels and gills. The percent of fish eventually dying after being caught in 60 ft of water may exceed 50%. The shallower the water, the better the chance a fish will live if released.

It would seem that the obvious thing to do is to never fish deeper than 30 feet (for walleye and bass) unless you intend to eat every fish that comes in the boat.

Tom (can't wait for Dr. Tuft's input) Lusk

P.S. We have had occasions in the past on this board where the input from a qualified fisheries biologist was attacked, causing him to write off this board as a way of spreading information. OUR LOSS! Hopefully Dr. Tufts' info. will not be met the same way... :?
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BIG JIM

Post by Big Jim »

Hey Guy's & Gal's...you to Bobber???

Have not forgotten about this...I am on it like a "fat red haired step child on a Smartie"

BIG JIM....AKA..the fat red haired step child....almost...I am not a step child...
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