The Other Guy

This is where it's all going on. One can ask for advice or general information or simply chew the fat about fishing tackle, tips, and locations.
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McQ
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The Other Guy

Post by McQ »

The Other Guy

Yesterday I had the pleasure of spending an hour and a half on the phone with Larry Smith one of our walleye pro staffers from Wisconsin.

Larry is a full time guide and touring pro on the walleye circuits, an informed, concerned angler who shared with me his realities about the future of fishing. We covered many topics, had some fun trading our personal experiences and chuckled about many of the trivial things that go on over the internet sites in today’s high paced, in your face so called manner of information sharing.

So much so, that a theme developed.

You see, in his area of the States which is a fishing “hotbed” personal observation leads him to believe that the future of the sport is in peril. This admission resulted from me crowing about Ontario and Ottawa in particular with a very high level of youth participation being enjoyed. Young people and I am specifically referring to teenagers still in High School or recent graduates in their early twenties seem to be everywhere - not only on the message boards but on the water too.

His observations stem from being on the water fishing and in the field hunting 300+ days of the year. In his area the growth and participation we may be taking for granted here just doesn’t exist or maybe it isn’t as readily apparent.

Trying to put a label on what the actual facts are is difficult, there are many contributing factors. Are the activities of the ANTIS to blame?, is the pace of life just so fast that parents don’t have the time to share their true passion with the kids?, is the industry moving in the wrong direction?, does television and gaming provide such an escape that kids just don’t care?, do other influences such as music and the cultural swing have anything to do with it? And the list goes on.

I believe that the reason is all of the above and more.

I also come to the conclusion that the old scapegoat let the “other guy” do something about it is the largest part of the problem.

We are the OTHER GUY!!!!!!

I can only speak for myself, bring my observations to the front and try to encourage others to share.

I’ve been at this website – internet deal since 1996, a very rapidly passing 10 years. It was a blast to be on these boards in the early days, the best fishermen were sharing tips, companies were enthusiastic about information sourcing and board admins had visions of $$$$$$$$, Television was in it’s Hayday, Print was king – glossy magazines full of picture supported articles were everywhere and technical advances in product development were so fast paced as to outstrip even the explosion of the internet.

What happened?

Where did things go wrong?

What is in play here that supports the idea that our sport is shrinking?

I suggest we are our own worst enemy, it’s easy to post on a board, it’s easy to hide behind a handle (we think so anyway), it’s easy to tout product, it’s easy to flame other ideas & thoughts, it is even easier to destroy our passion.

Recognize one fact – fishing is an individual pursuit that becomes competitive as soon as 2 or more people get together, regardless whether sitting on the bank of a river casting a bait, standing on a trolling motor dunking a worm or anonymously posting to a message board. Have any of you noticed lately one simple fact – the good guys are back. The truly great fishermen who genuinely have some serious help to offer are front and center especially on this board. I can assure you that this is happening elsewhere too.

Why?

I do believe our sport is shrinking for many reasons and I also believe that those who truly are passionate about the future are ready to be in the forefront of change. I believe that we aren’t a disappearing breed and I also know that the benefit I gain from time on the water is shared by enough of the “OTHER GUYS” to see a trend being established a trend that will be a force if enough of you collectively can get your heads screwed on right and move this internet thing in the right direction.

I believe that there are enough of the “OTHER GUYS” ready to join in and I believe that you have enough intelligence to realize the validity of my statements.

Can you make the grade – are you one of the “OTHER GUYS” ?
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Post by almontefisher »

Bill: WOW...that is pretty indepth and to some point I agree but if you look around my area of Lanark County I would have to say that there is an explosion of peole keen on reliving the "Good Ol Days" when my father would catch 100 walleye in a day travelling uphill both ways...LOL...Every time I am on the water it seems to be more fishermen out and about...now my opinion in the city is this...THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE RESOURSE IN THEIR OWN BACKYARD....Now before everyone goes and rips this apart..this is MY " one person" opinion. I have my father to thank for my passion which when I was in highschool was totally gone...but it is back again even harder than before. Do parents in the city even know what to do to go fishing??? Are they still in touch with nature or do the 9-5 workdays and everything in between just drain all energy that they could not be bothered. I do know a lot of people on this site are from Ottawa etc. and because I do not live there I might be totally wrong and if so I appologize...Take me as an example..I did not know of all the fishing "spots" in Ottawa until I went onto this board and now I know of many. I do agree that this forum and the internet if used properly is the largest resource available to learn and grow with fishing but it is also only as good as the peopel who input the data, stories etc. and these days it is hard to rely on that which is unfortunate... This again is the opinion of ME...

great fishing is a way of life that can only be taught to those who want to be taught.
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Post by Badger Shark »

My passion for fishing has never left me. The only time I did not fish much was when I lived in Kansa for ten years but evry summer I would come back to Ottawa to be with my grandparents. They owned a sailboat and we spent most of our time on the water and I was able to fish all the time. In Kansas there werent alot of places to fish and not very accessable either to a teenager with no car.

That being said this is a terrific read and does open up a good topic of discussion. I think today it is more likely that alot of kids would rather stay inside playing video games or watching tv and I know alot wouldnt want to spend time with their parents. I am speaking from me working with alot of younger people who really dont want to be around their parents and they like to go out with their friends and the usual stuff.

I mean we all were probably like that to a degree when we were younger but some of us just always like the outdoors and fishing, camping, boating etc...

I honestly do see more people out on the water now than before, weather they are fishng or not well who knows but they definitely are enjoying the resources close at hand.

Also I have to say life seems to be way more fast paced and time is a precious thing. I work six days a week around 60hrs, but I make sure I am off one day at least so I can get out, in fact this past spring till now I took off alot more days than I could before and got alot of use out of my boat and fished a hell of alot more than any time before. Maybe some people need to slow down and take a look at what they are doing before they wake up one day and say man where did the time go?

I know when I have kids I will be taking them out fishing and boating as soon a possible, in fact I cant wait.

:wink: And once again Bill, excellent topic for discussion.
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Post by Kenny »

My 2 cents from just talking to other guys in the office to come out and fish with me (young and old). These are there top excuses.

1. The water is so dirty everywhere, I would not swim in it let alone eat a fish from it.
2. If you can drive there it is fished out, I never catch anything when I go out, its too hard, long, and boring.
3. You need to invest so much money in equipment, and still you might not get anything.

I think for both young and old the opportuinities to spend "free time" have become very diversified. When free time opportunities were limited you had only so many things to do. Now with more and more activities becoming available and travel is now easier a cheaper, old stand by pastimes in your own back yard become overlooked. I think both hunting and fishing have been on a decline with respect to population growth for some time. When is the last time you went on a family picnic?
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Post by RJ »

Interesting topic Bill....

Took awhile to digest it all but I'll throw my thoughts out there on the subject, as I hope others do as well.

Are we a dying breed? I don't think so. I see as many people or more on the water as I did 10 years ago, likely more. I do disagree about youth being involved more than ever. Yes FH has some younger members but they are the exception and a very small percentage of the membership of this board. Youth find their way to what interests them later in life. I take my stepkids out fishing often and are some of my favorite trips of the year. Some go back to it, some don't. Nothing any of us can say to them will push them back to fishing. They either have a passion for it or they don't. Introducing them to it is all we can do. Not giving them that opportunity is a shame.


I’ve been at this website – internet deal since 1996, a very rapidly passing 10 years. It was a blast to be on these boards in the early days, the best fishermen were sharing tips, companies were enthusiastic about information sourcing and board admins had visions of $$$$$$$$, Television was in it’s Hayday, Print was king – glossy magazines full of picture supported articles were everywhere and technical advances in product development were so fast paced as to outstrip even the explosion of the internet.

What happened?

Where did things go wrong?
I'm not sure what you mean by things went wrong. There are more fishing shows on TV now than ever, with WFN being a 24-7 fishing channel. Wild TV is an outdoors channel as well that is 24-7. Magazines have gone the way of the dinosaur for the most part with online magazines and articles being at everyones fingertips in seconds and they are free!

You mention it was a blast being on these boards in the beginning. Most would argue it still is. I've spent more hours on fishing message boards in the past 3 plus years that I'd care to discuss, but I've come to a point where I've chosen to no longer contribute reports in a public setting. Folks learn quickly when you post a pic and the next week you seem to find 3 boats in the area you've never seen before, and frankly that sucks, but that's the nature of the beast. People have given up on fishing, they want catching. How often do you see posts titled " Looking for a spot for Spring Pike"? People want it handed to them on a platter. And for those that spend a ton of time on the water, they are done serving it up. Can anyone blame them?

I still do receive PM's regarding gear and the like which I always reply to because who doesn't like yakkin about gear!

I have gained a ton from FH.net, I've aquired freindships that have made these people like family to me. I've gained fishing partners all over the province that on a moments notice will meet to fish anywhere. Incredible assets. I have given thanks to FH.net for this many times over and will continue to do so.

Now the part of my ramble that won't sit well with everyone. What I have seen happening on message boards that doesn't sit well with me personally is the commercialism. Again, the fishing industry pushing stuff at us. Is it really necessary? Yes the server space has to be paid for BUT....

Does FH need 8 forums for retailers to promote themselves?

Does FH need rotating banners promoting their gear?

And now "Knowledge Partners" have been created. This one has made me more leary than the others. Is this a license to Spam? I've seen a few posts that would surely lead me to believe it is. What makes anyone a knowledge partner other than you are trying to sell something? Either your goods or your services from what I can see. It seems odd that in the forum rules self-promotion is shunned upon until you get your "knowledge partner" tag. I guess hanging on the boards for years my BS radar is always on alert. :wink:

I'm unsure what direction you want fishing boards to go in the future but I think the days of I was here, caught this, on this, are over. If they become an all out assault from the fishing industry as I see them going in recent times, I'm out. If I wanted ads, I'd buy In-Fisherman Magazine.

RJ
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Post by Moosebunk »

RJ wrote:People have given up on fishing, they want catching.

RJ
There's the quote of the day. :idea:

Too bad I can't see the day to day grind on the southern waters, so I'll take a perspective on youth fishing from what I've observed here.

Nowhere has satellite TV, MTV, video games and internet come along with such speed than in some of the remote places in the north here. While technology for the kids infiltrated youth life at the speed it was created in the south, allowing for everyone to adapt together, some places up here got running water and satellite TV within the last decade. Some Native elders who speak with me are shaking their heads because, A: they're losing that expected respect from the youth that has through history always been theirs, and B: they have no clue how to relate anymore, with their teenagers especially. The elders giving example of what recent change has been occurring. Most kids up here overnight I am told; and can see, have turned off the desire to be outdoors taking part in fishing and hunting, this much to the sadness of the adults. Those very few kids that are fishing/hunting.... the younger ones who would fall into the "youth" discussed here, seem very smart about it. Just 2 weeks ago I spent much of my lunch hour with a kid who giggled when he said "me and my buddy like to think of ourselves as sportfisherman." I nearly choked, hearing that come from a kid with a Status Card. And as we talked some more he was right up to snuff with his tactical descriptions on hunting summer eyes, his take on catch and release of trophy fish, and, he gave great advice on drift fishing searuns.

He's few and far between though, a tiny percentile of actively aware fishing youth who's educating himself and creating further reward in his angling, by taking advantage of TV shows, magazines, and his admitted recent awareness with internet The vast majority have their Ipods stitched into them while they're playing XBox, and will only go fishing or hunting it seems, if, forced too, or it gets them out of school.

See, in small places like these communities, where fish generally can be caught on every outing, the outdoors is ever present right in everyone's backyards, the parents and grandparents continue to be active fisherpeople and hunters, and, there's hardly a day go by where if you're in public you can't help but enter into a conversation about angling or hunting, it's ever more evident the power that technological outlets actually has on the youth. To understand here how the kids can be turning their backs to something that is still so ingrained into their daily lives and culture is a big wonder.

Then you consider where kids heads must be at in the south. Where "a river doesn't run through it." Where the last thing the average teenager thinks of while walking down Bank Street is, hmmmmm I wonder if there's any trout running in that storm drain. Likely kids aren't thinking along those lines... not in the city, not even too much here in the country.
The newage toys give instant gratification. If not a "You Win" message on a video game, it's a "Hey buddy, does the ringtone ever sound cool on your cellphone when it goes off in the changeroom at The Gap." Goes back to RJ's wee quote I think.... fishing isn't likely quick enough even for those "FEW" kids that are even getting out there and giving the outdoors the old college try all on their own. No, they need to supersize their muskie catches at the speed the drivethru at Wendy's garauntees.



I have to wonder what the percentages are of kids who put the outdoor life first over those that choose the indoors. I would bet that fewer kids by percentage are fishing these days in the south, because, of what I believe is going on here in the north, and what we can all see technology doing.


My $0.02 :D
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Post by eddie43 »

Very good topic for discussion and hopefully I can add a slightly different perspective.

I am currently 25 years old, still a young-n relativly speaking, and despite not yet into ice fishing, spend on average 50-60 days on the water each year. I do agree that of the people I know in my age category, there are very few who would even consider fishing as a past time.

I am still a very typical young person, I goto bars/nightclubs frequently, I enjoy the whole city living thing, but I also enjoy the outdoors immensily.

I think some of the factors that have led to my passion for fishing and the outdoors, first and foremost was my mother. My mother grew up in the eastern townships and used to fish quite a bit growing up. When I was about 6 she bought a cottage an hour north from here in Quebec, and she would take me fishing almost everynight for a few hours of sunfish & perch...This is where the seed was planted

I would also listen to the "grumpy old man" in the last cottage on my road, who had been on the lake for 30+ years, and had a HUGE collection of fish stories that I would listen to everychance I had.

Then as i got older, I would go out fishing on my own 2-3 times per day at the cottage and fell in love with the "fishing&catching" aspect of the sport. As I began to fish more for quality fish then quantity.

The other thing that contributed to my enjoyement of the outdoors, was beavers/cubs/boy scouts. My mother enrolled me when I was old enough for beavers, and stayed with the organization up until I was 15-16. I never went fishing with the organization but the camping/outdoor learning was invaluable.

Now whenever I am travelling and see any body of water my first thoughts are "I wonder what type of fish are in there?" I also have days where I get off work at 5 and drive the hour to the cottage to fish for 2 hours and drive back

Obviously everyones reasons will be different but I am sure most people fishing today can trace there early experiences back to a family member or friend of the family who first got them into fishing and nurtured there interest in the sport. Unfortunatly, i don't think there are as many people who take the time to get young people into these activites as there possibly once was. I work for Rogers, (if your cell or cable don't work, don't blame me :wink: ), and it is amazing how many people call customer service to complain about the cable not working, because they have young kids at home to take care of, and with the television out they don't know how to entertain the kids.... I'm sure the same can be said for video games as well, they are used to mind the kids quite often.

From the active participation of people on this site I have learned alot about fishing, and I do also see alot of reports of older folks, taking young people out to expereince the great outdoors, and our sport which is awsome!

I hope our sport does stay strong and hey if less people are getting involved, more fish for us!! :wink:

Good luck this winter everyone,
-eddie
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Post by FromTheNorth »

Wow McQ, this topic's got some meat to it. I read it yesterday and have been thinking of this subject since. (I woke up thinking about it)

I was born and raised in Northern Ontario but have lived in Ottawa for about 5 years now. As with Eddie, I'm 25 years old and have been an extreemly active fisherman since I was 4 or 5.

Where I'm from, fishing/camping/hunting seasons are almost as significant a time of year as cristmas. Schools are empty durring moose season. Although I must agree that there are quite a few young fishermen on the water around here... I've been disapointed with the Ottawa youth since I moved to this town.
When I first moved here, I started working as a fish monger at the Lapointes fish market.(best way to get your own seat on the bus durring the 5 o'clock rush hour) While working there, I met some of the most skilled cleaners of fish that I have ever seen. NONE OF THEM FISHED!!!!! Not one of them had ever been out on the water.

It took me 2+ years in ottawa to meet another fisherman. I was finally introduced to a "friend of a friend of a friend" (no joke!)

When I had first moved here I had made the mistake of justifiying this low participation level. "the fishing must be terrible around Ottawa" I told myself.

WoW was I wrong.
I've heard the argument before that "does television and gaming provide such an escape that kids just don’t care?, do other influences such as music and the cultural swing have anything to do with it? " but I remember playing mario bros. on my nintendo for hours. When I was young Nintendo WAS mind blowing, and I used to watch Much music all day long. BUT, when it was time for fishing, it was time for fishing.

I have to agree 100% with Eddie. It's all about a close family member of friend of the family sparking that interrest in kids. I too was a beaver/cub/scout. My father brought me, out at least on a weekly basis.
I've always said, "Anyone who doesn't like fishing, hasn't pulled a salmon from the rapids"
I might not be so narrow minded now about species or water body. But I stand by the message. Anyone who doesn't like fishing, doesn't have that ONE incredible memory. The one where you're with good friends/family, on a beautiful day, with amazing scenery, when they hooked into a fish that fought with every last ounce of energy it had.
WE all know at least one of those days(hopefully many more than one, they are why I fish)

This brings me back to McQ.... I believe you're exactly right. We can't leave it to "the other guy" to promote fishing. I understand that there are a lot of fish-hawkers my age. I believe that they are the true spokespeople for youth fishing. Bring your friends out on the water. There's nothing I find more gratifying than "guiding" an inexperienced friend and giving him/her that ONE memroy. They'll be begging you to take them out every time you hit the water from that day on.

Taking your friend out now, may lead to him bringing out his son/daughter later.

I can't comment on our american neighbours, but, I wonder if our funny/goofy approach to fishing shows(peter bowman/fishin'Canada, or even good old bob izumi) have attracted more youth than their U.S. counterparts(linder, dance...). Just a thought.

I would love to hear more from the younger Hawk-Talkers.
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Post by Wallyboss »

Me too I'm from Northern Ontario, my hunting and fishing experiences go back to when i was a child. I am the youngest child in my family by about 9 years(I guess I was an accident or there was nothing on the 3 channels on tv that night). The last 10 years I spent up in Smooth Rock Falls, i was alone with my Mom and Dad. My dad had never seen a 40 hours week nor a 5 day one. But every weekend was spent either at the cottage in the summer or the hunting camp from September to ice out. We left town at noon on Sat. and came back either Sunday late or Monday morning early. Not to say that my Dad tought me how to fish or hunt because my Dad would go to these places firstly cause I wanted to go and secondly, there was no telephone or TV or Radio or electricity. He went there to relax with a cold one and not be bothered by anybody. My mom would come every once in a while but one of the treat was that this was the only place that me and my Dad would be able to cook wild meat to our hearts content. My Mom wouldn't cook any wild meat at home.

So while my dad was relaxing, I spent all my time outside. In my first years I would go thru about 5 boxes of .22 shells every weekend. Now that I think of it. I still don't klnow how many Pepsi cans have died keeping me happy. Then came partridge hunting, then moose hunting.


Being from up North had advantages for a guy like me. Where else that before going to you first high school class in the morning you can jump on your bicycle and go get a limit of partridge.

I have been in Ottawa for about 26 years now. Because my Dad didn't work at the Pulp and Paper mill there was no chance in HELL that I would be hired there fulltime. He was a business man, he owned a grocery store. The only way for me to earn a good living I had to leave the area
get some schooling and find a job elsewhere. And I ended up here.

But all those years I spent having a good time in the bush fishing or hunting, I will keep as awesome memories until the day I die.

My son loves being outdoors like I do. His first experiences fishing with the boys he was hooked but the problem with those first experiences is that we used to catch 400-450 walters in a weekend(that trip was reserved for Opening weekend). Most catch and release but always kept some for a good shore lunch and some to bring back home. So the problem now is he gets bored fast if we don't catch that many everytime he goes out. Yes he loves his Playstation and computer like evry other 16year old out there. But now he has turned his love of being outside to what he wants to become after High School. He has joined the Reserves and by the time he finishes his High School he should have half of his Combat Engineer course finished.

This year he came deer Hunting with me. We spent most of our days sitting in by blinds just talking. Which didn't help us seeing deer but we had good talks. At one point we were stillhunting and we came up on a deer scrape. And he asked what that was. So I explained to him what it was and that all scrapes have a overhanging branch so the buck can rub his olfactif(spelling???) glands on it, and i said that the branch is usually about 4 feet off the ground but this branch was over 6 feet off the ground so I told him that this must be a Heck of a big buck. so for the rest of the week we setup on my blind that was close to the scrape. We were ot lucky but the next week my hunting buddy got a 14 point buck right out of my blind. my son was as happy as the guy who shot it because now he knew of one way to say if it was a big one or not without actually seeing. it made me proud that at least I know that I wasn't talking for nothing.

Well my daughter I brought her ice fishing and fishing in the boat a couple of times and she loved it. That was when she was 12yrs old but I think that the hat that she had to wear was messing up her hair too much and now that she is 14, "she has a social life to worry about" Maybe some day she will want to spend more time with the old man.

All this to say that kids these days are a lot different that when I was that age. But the best you can do is point them in the right direction . They might need a bit of a push to get back on track sometimes.

So in conclusion you can always show the younger ones to fish and hunt but you just cannot force them to.

But with young ones like example!!! Tipup and Jighead you can see that some kids still have it in there blood. And they are very good at it.
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Post by Snakebite »

Great topic - something to really debate while us softwater-only guys are regretting putting our boats away too soon and the hardwater guys are are watching the weather every day just hoping.

I'm fairly young - ok 34, so maybe not so young but I still feel young. I will admit I have only gotten back into fishing in the past couple of years.

I grew up fishing every day in the summer when I was young and friends of my father ensured that I got to try ice fishing a couple of times each winter. I drifted away from it as a teenager as other things: school, sports, job, social life took up my time. Somewhere in the midst of all that I just forgot how enjoyable fishing was. I still went hiking, camping and canoe-tripping but fishing just wasn't on my mind.

About 4 years ago, I agreed to go on a guys fishing weekend with some friends from university, none of us were fishermen, in fact, I don't think we owned a rod between us. We didn't catch much and boy was my casting technique rusty but it reawakened that long forgotten enjoyment.

My brother had gone through a similar thing a couple of years earlier and just nodded knowlingly when I explained how much I missed it. The next year he invited me to his cottage to do some serious fishing - showed me some of the new equipment and techniques he had discovered. After that weekend I was hooked (intentional :wink: ). Started reading, talking to others and generally driving my wife crazy - she had always said she wanted me to find a hobby - i don't think she realized what that would mean. Two years ago, I acquired a boat and have spent as much time on the water as I could since. (I still consider myself a neophyte - its the major reason I joined this site - to learn from others.)

In short, I agree completely with two things that have been said previously: first, people generally start fishing later in life so people probably shouldn't get too worried about the apparent lack of a new generation and 2) it takes someone to show you the magic of fishing, or in my case to remind me. I also know now that its my responsibility to pass this on to others, and especially to my daughter.

Cheers,
Snakebite
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Post by plowjock »

Well guys and girls, I will admit that as a child I didn't do much fishing or hunting. I was too busy working on the farm to get away and enjoy a weekend fishing. I went maybe three times, fishing for trout, withmy dad. I just wasn't interested. I enjoyed farm work more than fishing, but still enjoyed NATURE.
I was born post world war II and everything wasn't as easy as it is now.
It was a little better than the depression of the dirty 30's. We didn't have a lot of extra cash around or much to do anything extra with. With my dad having been a prisoner of war in the Hitler Hotels where they got barley soup 2x daily, when he got home we just didn't do much together.
I have to admit that I learned pretty well all I know today from young people who had dads who did know something about fishing. I didn't really get started into fishing until the early 1990's. the likes of Jason Kluver, Pat Beahen, Milt(The Old trout), Paul Shibata, Glen Merkley,Trevor Cheney, have taken me under a wing so to say and have helped to bring me to a point where I feel that I know a little but still have LOTS to Learn. I admit that I don't know it all but I'm not to old to still keep on learning and hopefully soon start passing some of this knowledge on to my Grandsons. If you see me on the water soon it will be with one of my little guys hopefully getting started with grampa going after some pannies and gills.
Thanks to Bill for bringing up such a great topic to discuss and lets see hopefully more young peole out there learning how to read water instead of asking where did you catch all those fish.
Whenever I have heard that question, I remember some guy down at Old Fishing Buddies store saying "Right in the corner of the mouth"
Learn from Mother Nature, She is a Great Teacher.
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Post by muskymatt »

I believe there are 3 types of anglers

1) fad fishers ....those who see other do it and think how fun it would be ...spend lots of money and try it , only to quit

2) weekend anglers ...those who enjoy it but with little passion, and with lmited success

3) dedicated sportsmen anglers...those who care about fishing and fish and the rivers and lakes they inhabit

How one gets to one of these is anyones guess, certainly a childs upbringing will influence the life style they have as an adult. Computers and Hip-hop junk TV have little positive effect on ones in touch with nature.
Yes forums are both positive and negative but if one thing they do do is raise awareness and allow people to make a judgement or form an opinion. At the very least they are an information tool.

The involvement of all three types of anglers on a forum board can only lead to greater education for all, thus each playing their small role.
I for one am an involved , concerned lifetime angler and brought that from my youth, I belive every parent should make the effort to take their kids fishing. And if only a small percentage of them become "the other guy" then the future is not bleek.

Maybe the techno age is not for all , or runs it's course and leaves some wanting more.

Or maybe some just ...."get it "....scenery -fresh air -catching fish- the great outdoors - the thrill of the chase- friendships -conservation -etc. ..is natures lottery...
As for the good guys ..they never leave ..they can't ..it's in our blood :wink:

JMO

Matt
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Bobber
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Post by Bobber »

Bill, excellent read and perspective. Thanks for sharing. I believe every response to this read has equal merit and I don't think there are any right or wrong answers, they're all valid.

I can remember 3 years ago, Fishhawk and I were in his garage doing a typical Thursday Night Fishhawk planning session, when the topic of "niche" came up. We discussed several "niches", including our potential young angers whom we see just "hanging out" down the corner store. We thought, wouldn't it be great if we (Fish-Hawk) could somehow reach these kids and show them the joys of this sport? We also thought about how that would be even more compounded by educating them on our delicate resources and how we all must act responsibly to ensure a full and prosperous environment in the future. Yes.....all in the garage over a couple of pints. That's how we usually plan things. :lol:

In any case, while the road to our goals may not happen as quickly as would like to see them, we will persist. I still plan on heading that way....promoting the site, introducing anglers to new products and businesses that can help them reach their goals, bringing relative information to the commuity through articles and tips, and giving back to the community through contest giveaways.

Now specifically about the Internet....it is a great resource, if used properly. Have we all figured out how to use it?....I don't think so. We work very hard at trying to understand its potential, and how to present information. How much information is too much information? When does the information, which is so much easier to find now, become a thorn in someone's side, because they didn't have this information source when they were growing up, and they worked very hard to get it. May be some animosity there, who knows. Not like today, it's easy...google it, or ask the question on a message board. This of course opens a whole new door of advertising, promotion, spamming, etc. It's much the same as building a big skating rink, getting in an NHL Hockey team, and then plastering the side of the building with corporation names who have donated to support the cause of the rink and the team. I don't really see it any different....however it can become a problem if not balanced.

We've tried very hard to balance knowledge information with advertising and promotional information. We sometimes leverage both to bring things to the community. I feel we have succeeded here at Fish-Hawk.Net to achieve this balance, allow our partners to get their messages to the community, and allows the community to access those messages "if they want to" by going to the specific locations they have been allocated. We do not do "in your face advertising", and we do not allow just anyone to promote their goods.

So there are so many factors today that affect our sport, its participation, the level of competition, and our response to it. As Bill mentioned, we are "the other guy". Every "other guy" affects the industry and the sport. Let's all work together to affect it in a postive way.
Rob Atkinson
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Post by McQ »

The insight is appreciated. I truly do believe we are on the right track to continue the growth of our passion.

My main concern is what can we do collectively to leverage the value of the internet in such a way that youth is comfortable visiting sites for information.

I monitor 67 websites for a couple of reasons; the first is it's my business to know what is happening in and around the industry, primarily I am curious as to how information is shared or imparted and there is always the social aspect (friendly sites).

Statistically, it is a well known fact that the environment and all its elements is of prime concern to young people today. What better source of information can there be than the observations of folk who are on the water frequently. Our watersheds are usually the first indicator that something is wrong or that mangement is improving the resource.

Fishing is or should be a relaxing and fun way to spend time. Catching fish to me is secondary to the total experience. Fishing doesn't require any special tools really, there are inexpensive ways to dunk a worm on a hook & sinker.

I think the younger generations are attracted to fishing in much the same manner I was 50 years ago - it's fun and solving the mystery of just what is biting on that bait is satisfying.

The question in my mind is, how can we encourage the beginner to take it to the next level.
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muskymatt
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Post by muskymatt »

Active participation!!
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