In response to the current "Oppinions" post, and the many good points that have been voiced within that thread, I'd like to ask for your feedback on whether or not you feel certain forums within Hawk Talk should be restricted to registered users only.
I'm thinking along the lines of restriction only to a certain subset of forums. Those like.....
- Fishing Talk
- Float and Fly Fishing
- Boats and Electronics
- Fishing Reports
This is by no means a negative suggestion against Lurkers. I'd just like to know what the current registered userbase thinks about this, in light of recent conversation.
Your help is appreciated.
Result of your suggestions....
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Bobber
- Diamond Participant
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- Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 10:40 am
- Location: Stittsville, Ontario
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Result of your suggestions....
Last edited by Bobber on Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:13 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Rob Atkinson
Site Admin (retired)
Site Admin (retired)
The problem with registered user only access is that it would not stop anyone from registering once, retrieving the information they wanted then never visit again or come back and read once or twice a month. I do not think that anyone here wants the job of policing low volume users nor should it be done.
I believe that reality is that the information available on Fish-Hawk can probably be found on countless other boards.
If there is information that needs to be safeguarded, maybe a seperate Members Only forum should be created. Then, if someone is not comfortable with posting a fishing report in the general forum, they could post it there, along with any other information/discussion they felt necessary.
To stop the Register then Split user, maybe Bobber would consider placing a minimun post count to gain access to such a forum.
The photography forum that I am a Admin in uses a process such as this in their Buy/Sell forum. Granted there are then folks who will run up a bunch of posts by posting "Nice fish" 50 times, but you can clearly see this and deal with it on a one to one basis.
Another 2 cents worth, 2.75 cents, USD.
I believe that reality is that the information available on Fish-Hawk can probably be found on countless other boards.
If there is information that needs to be safeguarded, maybe a seperate Members Only forum should be created. Then, if someone is not comfortable with posting a fishing report in the general forum, they could post it there, along with any other information/discussion they felt necessary.
To stop the Register then Split user, maybe Bobber would consider placing a minimun post count to gain access to such a forum.
The photography forum that I am a Admin in uses a process such as this in their Buy/Sell forum. Granted there are then folks who will run up a bunch of posts by posting "Nice fish" 50 times, but you can clearly see this and deal with it on a one to one basis.
Another 2 cents worth, 2.75 cents, USD.
I think it would be a good idea , not all forums but some, potential new members need to look at something to decide if they want to join.
I also believe that the signature line should be re-instated, but for the real name of the person only. You can have your nick-name but you also MUST display your real name . IMO this would lessen the chance of hiding behind the keyboard and saying things you likely wouldn't if people know who you are.
Matt
I also believe that the signature line should be re-instated, but for the real name of the person only. You can have your nick-name but you also MUST display your real name . IMO this would lessen the chance of hiding behind the keyboard and saying things you likely wouldn't if people know who you are.
Matt
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HitmanHill
- Bronze Participant
- Posts: 369
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:52 pm
- Location: Kanata
I think with this site being an open site it allows people to get to know what is being said and if they enjoy the open discussions they will want to contribute by signing up. I know there are some people that just like to read about fishing and all the aspects that go along with this activity which is why I think this site is and should be open to all. The more people that are allowed to get onto the site without having to sign up for whatever reason, maybe some people don't feel comfortable enough to make a post or are just intraverted but still enjoy being able to read what is going on. Eventually I think it is better for everyone to know that we actually help these people learn just by having these discussions.
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Trophymuskie
- Gold Participant
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- Location: Ottawa River
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It's a catch 22 question.
Lock out lurkers and you may lose a bunch of them.
Make them register and they may stay lurkers but it sure would make it easier to post if they ever wished to do so.
The thing that really maters here is that you should ask the question as to why you would want lurkers to visit the site? They don't contribute to the forums but they are number of hits that see the advertising.
I say you make them register for all forums, it's not going to stop all the BS but it sure will help.
I also like the real name signature like Matt has mentioned, it sure would stop the cowardly attacks.
Lock out lurkers and you may lose a bunch of them.
Make them register and they may stay lurkers but it sure would make it easier to post if they ever wished to do so.
The thing that really maters here is that you should ask the question as to why you would want lurkers to visit the site? They don't contribute to the forums but they are number of hits that see the advertising.
I say you make them register for all forums, it's not going to stop all the BS but it sure will help.
I also like the real name signature like Matt has mentioned, it sure would stop the cowardly attacks.
Catch and release them all
Richard Collin
Richard Collin
Registering isn't going to eliminate someone lurking. Usually early on people don't post anything to site until after they get a feel for the site, guess that's lurking but without the negative connitation. Not everyone wants to speak up in a crowd whether its a cyper crowd or an actual one.
Seems that there is a great deal of fear of lurkers here, as if there is this group of fisherman with boat keys in hand ready to rush out the door at the first mention of a new lake.
Seems that there is a great deal of fear of lurkers here, as if there is this group of fisherman with boat keys in hand ready to rush out the door at the first mention of a new lake.
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muskymike
- Bronze Participant
- Posts: 227
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- Location: orleans
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Good plan it definitely would change the way people post !!!! or would this just lead to a confrontation of an other level???????muskymatt wrote:I think it would be a good idea , not all forums but some, potential new members need to look at something to decide if they want to join.
I also believe that the signature line should be re-instated, but for the real name of the person only. You can have your nick-name but you also MUST display your real name . IMO this would lessen the chance of hiding behind the keyboard and saying things you likely wouldn't if people know who you are.
Matt
Real names is a great idea, in the world of honest sincere people.
In the world of the internet, anyone can say their name is John Smith. John Doe, etc, etc.
Make up a fake name to hide your identity, or use someone else's real name to make them look bad.
Great idea in reality, but in cyberspace, not a chance.
In the world of the internet, anyone can say their name is John Smith. John Doe, etc, etc.
Make up a fake name to hide your identity, or use someone else's real name to make them look bad.
Great idea in reality, but in cyberspace, not a chance.
Registration is the last thing a site should need. It is very simple for a site admin to trace a posters origins through their ISP address. Abuse is something that is addressed by many sites and I've got to bring forward the thought that there are more elements to be concerned about than what happens on an open forum FISHING SITE.
Fish Hawkers are encouraged to be opinionated, the problem is not abuse but where some of the opinions take us.
It doen't take very long for any of us to determine if a posters ideas have merit or whether they are just inserted to stir the pot. It's the policing of the pot stirring that requires attention.
There are two ways to handle the situation - (1) shut the thread down or (2) add knowledge to clear the ideas being formed. I'd like to believe that we are more capable of handling point #2 and bringing value to any subject.
Lurkers are not a bad group - it's exactly what the internet produces - the element of voyeurism is what makes the internet the greatest thing since sliced bread. We all start out in the lurker category and as we become more comfortable with what a site offers it's easy to sign on and participate fully.
Your internet handle is a personal thing - it provides your identity and gives other participants the opportunity to get to know you personally if the inclination is there. Many of us have had the pleasure of meeting fellow enthusiasts face to face and that wouldn't happen unless we came to sites like this and started out lurking - just to see what was going on.
As far as some surfers just checking in for the latest hot spot news - nothing could be further from reality - I have never read a report that provided the absolute detail that some are suggesting and not only that most fish move around - that specific GPS coordinate that produced today is more than likely a dead zone tomorrow. Todays hot bait may not come out of the tackle box again for weeks depending on the conditions that made it hot to begin with.
There will always be areas that hold fish, elements that mother nature has combined to create a great environment and habitat are also subject to her wims in maintainig the absolute best conditions and we all know that doesn't happen.
The true value of this site and many others is sharing knowledge - for those of you who already know everything then your life is complete - for those of us who realize that learning is a never ending cycle then please get comfortable and enjoy what these sites have to offer - you will be a better person for it.
Fish Hawkers are encouraged to be opinionated, the problem is not abuse but where some of the opinions take us.
It doen't take very long for any of us to determine if a posters ideas have merit or whether they are just inserted to stir the pot. It's the policing of the pot stirring that requires attention.
There are two ways to handle the situation - (1) shut the thread down or (2) add knowledge to clear the ideas being formed. I'd like to believe that we are more capable of handling point #2 and bringing value to any subject.
Lurkers are not a bad group - it's exactly what the internet produces - the element of voyeurism is what makes the internet the greatest thing since sliced bread. We all start out in the lurker category and as we become more comfortable with what a site offers it's easy to sign on and participate fully.
Your internet handle is a personal thing - it provides your identity and gives other participants the opportunity to get to know you personally if the inclination is there. Many of us have had the pleasure of meeting fellow enthusiasts face to face and that wouldn't happen unless we came to sites like this and started out lurking - just to see what was going on.
As far as some surfers just checking in for the latest hot spot news - nothing could be further from reality - I have never read a report that provided the absolute detail that some are suggesting and not only that most fish move around - that specific GPS coordinate that produced today is more than likely a dead zone tomorrow. Todays hot bait may not come out of the tackle box again for weeks depending on the conditions that made it hot to begin with.
There will always be areas that hold fish, elements that mother nature has combined to create a great environment and habitat are also subject to her wims in maintainig the absolute best conditions and we all know that doesn't happen.
The true value of this site and many others is sharing knowledge - for those of you who already know everything then your life is complete - for those of us who realize that learning is a never ending cycle then please get comfortable and enjoy what these sites have to offer - you will be a better person for it.
While at first glance it might seem reasonable to put your real name down as a signature, it would not be in anyones best interest.
I would now have two pieces of information about you. Your ISP and Name. Who knows what else I can scrap of the 'net with those two pieces.
I put in my real name when I registered with FH. I hope that that information is well guarded.
We only need to see what happen with the TJ MAXX (winners) break in.
CIBC misplaced a hard drive with customer information on it. Not the first time that CIBC sent out information about its clients.
Here is something to try. Google your name! include your city . See what comes up.
I would now have two pieces of information about you. Your ISP and Name. Who knows what else I can scrap of the 'net with those two pieces.
I put in my real name when I registered with FH. I hope that that information is well guarded.
We only need to see what happen with the TJ MAXX (winners) break in.
CIBC misplaced a hard drive with customer information on it. Not the first time that CIBC sent out information about its clients.
Here is something to try. Google your name! include your city . See what comes up.
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garzleflop
- Participant
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 9:41 pm
- Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
McQ's post here and Bobbers article last night in the Opinions thread do a pretty good job summing up how I feel about this whole thing. Even as a registered member of this forum, I still do a great deal of "lurking". Not because I'm trying to steal your fishing spot, sometimes I just don't have anything to say. Other times, I just don't have time to go through the incredibly huge volume of posts on this site.
Have I used this site to try and find fishing spots? Sure. I'm not originally from Ottawa and neither are my fishing partners. How else are we supposed to get started? I can understand not giving away the GPS coordinates of that hump in the middle of Lake Whatchamacallit. I don't want that much information, why don't you catch the fish for me too! But it is pretty nice to have a resource where I can find out things like "is it a Bass lake or a Walleye lake?", "Does anyone know if they rent boats there?", "is there public access for shore fishing?", "is it even worth making the trip or is the lake fished out?"...
Anyway, I like the site, I'm glad the site is here, and if I'd had to register just to check the site out, I probably wouldn't be here now. Keep up the good work.
If I can offer one piece of criticism, I find it difficult to search out specific information in the forums. I find that searching the forum usually returns quite a large number of posts that are unrelated to my search. Does anyone else have this problem? Am I doing something wrong? Maybe this should be a separate topic. If so, I apologize.
Rick
><> ><> ><> ><>
Here fishy fishy fishy...
Have I used this site to try and find fishing spots? Sure. I'm not originally from Ottawa and neither are my fishing partners. How else are we supposed to get started? I can understand not giving away the GPS coordinates of that hump in the middle of Lake Whatchamacallit. I don't want that much information, why don't you catch the fish for me too! But it is pretty nice to have a resource where I can find out things like "is it a Bass lake or a Walleye lake?", "Does anyone know if they rent boats there?", "is there public access for shore fishing?", "is it even worth making the trip or is the lake fished out?"...
Anyway, I like the site, I'm glad the site is here, and if I'd had to register just to check the site out, I probably wouldn't be here now. Keep up the good work.
If I can offer one piece of criticism, I find it difficult to search out specific information in the forums. I find that searching the forum usually returns quite a large number of posts that are unrelated to my search. Does anyone else have this problem? Am I doing something wrong? Maybe this should be a separate topic. If so, I apologize.
Rick
><> ><> ><> ><>
Here fishy fishy fishy...
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Bobber
- Diamond Participant
- Posts: 3182
- Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 10:40 am
- Location: Stittsville, Ontario
- Contact:
Thanks for the comments thus far. A lot of great discussion.
I don't think "fear" is the right word to use to describe the position on Lurking. I don't mind it, and actually encourage people to check out the site and read what's going on. Internet message boards are not for everyone, however the information is, and it's this information that helps us learn and keeps us informed. By us, I mean everyone.
Not everyone has time to participate to the extent that many of us do, that's just the way it is. Should we stop providing that information to these people? Should we start tracking minimum posts to remain active on the site? I tend to think not, cause then we are creating a private club where Angling information is privy to only that select few. Again, this is not really the model here. If a Lurker decides they want to register and participate, then it's their choice. If they'd rather just read...for whatever reason, then that's their choice to.
I have actually asked some people who have told me they are on the site quite frequently, but don't register and participate, why they don't. Here are some of the reasons.....
- Message boards only create a stage for performers, and I'm one of them, so it's in your best interest that I don't participate, cause I'm sure I'd say something that would get me in trouble. Hey, I respect that. There are lots of personalities out there, and these people recognize that theirs may not be right for such a forum.
- I can't really write well and don't feel comfortable cause I don't want to look silly and ask stupid questions. We've all be there at some point in time....even myself when we had the original board year ago.
- I don't know enough to contribute. I am still learning, and reading is what is educating me. Perhaps someday I'll be able to contribute better. Mission Accomplished in my oppinion.
- I don't visit often, just every now and again to see what's going on. Again, mission accomplished.
- I only visit the site to see what's new in the tackle shops and the market place. I love fishing stuff, and this is a good source of information for it. Fair enough, this will make our supporters happy.
- Message Boards are a joke, nothing but a bunch of hot headed people that when post message it's a riot. I read for the entertainment value. Fair enough, I don't agree, but like I said, message boards are not for everyone.
I am still struggling with identifying the advantage of moving to a Registered User only site, without negatively impacting the overall end goal of this site. I see some potential advantages, but not 100% convinced it's the way to go. That's why I'm looking for your views, and I thank you for them. I don't think we're going to please everyone, but all we can do is try our best to have a site that the majority of the audience likes and has respect for.
Cheers,
I don't think "fear" is the right word to use to describe the position on Lurking. I don't mind it, and actually encourage people to check out the site and read what's going on. Internet message boards are not for everyone, however the information is, and it's this information that helps us learn and keeps us informed. By us, I mean everyone.
Not everyone has time to participate to the extent that many of us do, that's just the way it is. Should we stop providing that information to these people? Should we start tracking minimum posts to remain active on the site? I tend to think not, cause then we are creating a private club where Angling information is privy to only that select few. Again, this is not really the model here. If a Lurker decides they want to register and participate, then it's their choice. If they'd rather just read...for whatever reason, then that's their choice to.
I have actually asked some people who have told me they are on the site quite frequently, but don't register and participate, why they don't. Here are some of the reasons.....
- Message boards only create a stage for performers, and I'm one of them, so it's in your best interest that I don't participate, cause I'm sure I'd say something that would get me in trouble. Hey, I respect that. There are lots of personalities out there, and these people recognize that theirs may not be right for such a forum.
- I can't really write well and don't feel comfortable cause I don't want to look silly and ask stupid questions. We've all be there at some point in time....even myself when we had the original board year ago.
- I don't know enough to contribute. I am still learning, and reading is what is educating me. Perhaps someday I'll be able to contribute better. Mission Accomplished in my oppinion.
- I don't visit often, just every now and again to see what's going on. Again, mission accomplished.
- I only visit the site to see what's new in the tackle shops and the market place. I love fishing stuff, and this is a good source of information for it. Fair enough, this will make our supporters happy.
- Message Boards are a joke, nothing but a bunch of hot headed people that when post message it's a riot. I read for the entertainment value. Fair enough, I don't agree, but like I said, message boards are not for everyone.
I am still struggling with identifying the advantage of moving to a Registered User only site, without negatively impacting the overall end goal of this site. I see some potential advantages, but not 100% convinced it's the way to go. That's why I'm looking for your views, and I thank you for them. I don't think we're going to please everyone, but all we can do is try our best to have a site that the majority of the audience likes and has respect for.
Cheers,
Last edited by Bobber on Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
Rob Atkinson
Site Admin (retired)
Site Admin (retired)
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steve-hamilton
- Gold Participant
- Posts: 1688
- Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:32 am
registration would make this site a heckuva lot better.
that is my opinion.
even if it forces lurkers to register, thats one step in eliminating lurkers....
who i feel is the whole downfall of internet fishing boards....
if these folks want to lurk, let them lurk at their local fishing shop.
i think it would be really interesting to see how many folks 'sign up' in the first few days.....probably hundreds.....
all the folks that clicked on fh.net, for their daily browsing, without contributing, like they have been doing for years.....now all of a sudden, they have to make a name for themself....even if it is just a handle....
thats one thing they wouldn't even contribute before....a flippin' name for themself!
that is my opinion.
even if it forces lurkers to register, thats one step in eliminating lurkers....
who i feel is the whole downfall of internet fishing boards....
if these folks want to lurk, let them lurk at their local fishing shop.
i think it would be really interesting to see how many folks 'sign up' in the first few days.....probably hundreds.....
all the folks that clicked on fh.net, for their daily browsing, without contributing, like they have been doing for years.....now all of a sudden, they have to make a name for themself....even if it is just a handle....
thats one thing they wouldn't even contribute before....a flippin' name for themself!