Newboro Area Question

[Green Trout]

Great site! Long time reader first time poster. I will be at my in-laws cottage on Newboro lake next week. My 13-year-old nephew -- who will be staying with us -- has become absolutely obsessed with trapping crawdads, for some reason. He has ordered traps online and has read just about everything he could on the subject. I certainly want to encourage this, as it beats playing video games, so any insight any of you might have on GENERAL locations/techniques would be most appreciated. We tried last year off the dock of my in-laws cottage but drew a blank...

[Swamp-Donkey]

Hi there Green Trout,

In Ontario, Crawdads/ Crayfish are catagorized under "baitfish" and are therefore subject to a few regulations.

Only ONE trap may be used. Name and address must be clearly labeled on the trap. Owner of trap may only be in posession of 120 crayfish at any given time. The trap must not exceed 20 inches x 12.2 inches.
A valid "resident of Ontario" fishing licence must be posessed by the owner. If the owner is a minor, then a guardian that is present, must have a valid licence. The most critical point to remember is that under no circumstances should baitfish/crayfish be transported from one waterbody to another.

Is your Nephew trapping the crayfish for bait? Or is he just trapping crayfish for the fun of it? You had not mentioned the purpose in your post.

If the purpose is for fishing bait, I would try to impress on him that live-bait fishing during open water seasons is considered, well, a little un-sporting. Artificial baits will always out-fish live bait. With the selection of lures and soft-plastics available today,theres no need to suspend a live frog or crayfish below a bobber to catch a bass.
Besides, the days of live-bait in Ontario are quickly coming to an end and will soon be out-lawed completely. (thank-God).

I hope this helps,

Cheers

[Green Trout]

Thanks for the reply. Does this mean you have to be an Ontario RESIDENT to trap crawdads? We're visiting from the U.S. and will of course have valid fishing licenses.

He is trapping the crawfish -- believe it or not -- because he wants to eat them. I will humor him, and if he catches more than 20, we will boil them up -- IF it's legal.

As for fishing live bait being "unsporting," I graduated from live bait fishing to lures when I was his age, and have no problem if he decides to fish with bait. It's his choice, and it is legal, after all. He will learn, as I did, that there are issues with live bait (fish taking the hooks too deep, keeping the bait alive, etc.). I will not allow him to release any injured fish (unless it's illegal to keep them). He will have to bring them home, clean them and eat them.

If it goes the way it went for me, he will graduate to lures very shortly. He may even switch to barbless hooks, as I did years ago. He's already there, mostly, and in fact just released a four-and-a-half pound bass he caught on a tube.

And let's not forget that catching live bait is a heck of a lot of fun -- I think more fun than actually fishing with it. remember, this guy is thirteen years old, and I will encourge him any way I can to keep him outside.

Frankly, I think the catch and release pendulum has swung way too far in one direction. Fish are good to eat (health advisories not withstanding); I have no problem with keeping a few for the table every now and then. Still, I release about 95 percent of the fish I catch, and I haven't killed a bass (knowlingly) in two decades...

[Swamp-Donkey]

Hi there Green Trout.

Unfortunatly You must be a resident of Ontario to trap your own baitfish, crayfish, frogs or leeches. It is clearly indicated in the Ontario Sport-fishing Regulations booklet. This clearly states that trapping of live-bait(minnows,crayfish,frogs and leeches) by ANY means is prohibited.

As far as eating them, good luck with that. Our northern varieties of crayfish are not the same as thier delicious cousins in the south. They are not considered edible table fare. I didn't see anything in the sport-fishing regulations with regards to trapping crayfish for personal consumtion, so if you want to boil a bunch up, be my guest. They taste like $H!T.

As far as your comments on the "sportingness" of live bait. Your views are your views and all my preaching surely won't alter your perception on the ethical, and sportsmanlike way in which to introduce a youngster to fishing. If you were to ask any serious Ontario Bass angler if dangling a frog, crayfish or minnow below a bobber was an ethical or sporting method of angling for Bass(or any other fish for that matter) the answer would be a resounding, "NO". This is why we are slowly seeing legislation coming into place that will soon see the end of live-bait in Ontario.

I have a step-daughter that is now 20. She was introduced to fishing at a very young age and never, through the hundreds of days we spent together on the water, did she throw anything but artificials. I myself, as a young angler learned early on about the effectiveness of artificials over live bait. So the argument about "graduating" to artificials, simply doesn't hold alot of weight as far as I'm concerned.

My opinion remains unchanged. Live bait is only used by people that really, just plain don't know how to fish!

Cheers.

[Green Trout]

Thanks for the info. Looks like we won't be loading up on crawdads...

You're right about live bait being for those who don't know how to fish -- that would include kids that are trying to learn...

I would bet the majority of anglers on this site and elsewhere got their start fishing worms for sunnies.

Over and out.

[Swamp-Donkey]

Hey there GreenTrout,

If you carefully read through my posts you will clearly see that I never mentioned worms. Fishing with worms for sunnies or even tipping a walleye jig with a piece of fat nightcrawler, is not even close to the same thing as dropping a live, minnow, frog or crayfish over the side of the boat in pursuit of sportfish. Nor are the implications even remotely the same!

Worms or Nightcrawlers first of all will never be an invasive species, nor will they ever spread the VHS virus and the capture of worms will not upset the food chain in any particular waterbody!

It would have been nice to stay somewhat on topic but perhaps debating is not your strong suit.

Cheers

[yokes]

Wow, Swamp-Donkey, that's a wide brush you paint with.

Plastics...when they first came out they dissolved tackle box trays/ other plastic items. That must have been good for the environment as they lay on the bottom of the water body.

Also all the pthalates/oils used to keep them supple and soft, slowly leaching out into the water.

At least now they are biodegradeable ones. But what of all the plastics out there currently in the water. At least when a minnow falls off the hook, it will either be eaten or biodegrade.

I see your point about invasive species/VHS.

I just don't appreciate being painted by your brush.

[wishin I was Fishin]

Nice.....

Very eloquent responses Green Trout to a couple of blunt and abrasive posts.

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/fishing/bait.html

The above URL will provide the answers you are looking for in a more diplomatic, tourist/user friendly manor. Also, Roger Norris at Norris' Live Bait in Newboro could be of some help to you....he still has an interest in peoples right to use bait if they so desire. (even if it is for consumption perhaps. lol)

FWIW I have eaten local crayfish. The tails are the only part worth eating and the crayfish must be soaked in salt water for a while before boiling. This makes them purge their systems of any crap. Once boiled with some celery salt or whatever spice turns your crank, they turn red....the tails are alot like shrimp...the small...very small, popcorn type.

[orrsey]

Considering that your question was about techniques and finding and catching crawfish I will address what you asked. A good place to start would be in a rocky area, or in weeds. They are much easier to catch in and around rocks though. You can just walk along any rocky shore line and lift the rocks and you are bound to find them in there. Without a trap they can be quick, so try to either corner them or have quick hands. If using a trap put it in a weedy area or on a rocky shoreline with a dead minnow inside. Try to keep it a native minnow, even a minnow from the same lake so you wont get strung up and hung by anyone who may finds out that you are using live bait .
My view on live bait is that I dont have a problem with it. As long as they are not invasive species and you follow the regs, no one should be able to tell you what to do. As far as I am concerned todays generation is not as active in the outdoors as generations in the past so any method of fishing or activity that a young person enjoys outside should be encouraged, as long as its legel and safe. If a kid wants to use live bait when he/she fishes because it keeps them interested GREAT, they are interested. Dont forget these kids are the future of this sport and are the ones that are going to be pumping money into this sport/hobby, get them interested anyway you can. If you really want to know the regs just give the ministry a quick call and they will tell you the laws and rules as the actual book can be pretty unclear at the best of times.
As for eating them I have never myself but if he wants to try them I doubt they would hurt you, hey they might even be good.


"If you were to ask any serious Ontario Bass angler if dangling a frog, crayfish or minnow below a bobber was an ethical or sporting method of angling for Bass(or any other fish for that matter) the answer would be a resounding, "NO"." I think this comment was made on behalf of a lot of people that SD doesnt know....

p.s. green trout welcome to the site!

[uberfish]

Ontario crawdads/crawfish/crayfish are indeed edible. There has been interest in harvesting or farming them in Ontario in the past but they grow too slowly to compete with their bigger southern cousins. Takes about eight years to make a big crawdad up here.
I personally like frogs and wouldn't use them for bait. I knew a guy who modified a hook to hold live mice (little rubber bands held the mouse) and fished with these.
Speaking of invasive species (a good reason to not transport live minnows or crayfish), I recently found out that almost all the worms in our dirt are invasive species! There are virtually no endemic worms in Ontario. Who knew, eh? So fishing with worms is ok and so is eating invasive rusty crayfish.

[almontefisher]

I do see where Swamp is coming from...Live bait is getting worse to use but only because people do not know what to do with them. The lake that my cottage is on has gone down hill because people do not dispose of them properly...Releasing a bucket load of live bait into the water. If controlled properly they are good. I use live minnows from my lake for lakers and bows all the time. Worms are a good live bait to use for sure for pannies and eye's or even Carp. As for where to catch crayfish I agree that rocky shore lines are great. I would stay away from weedy areas as I have had my toes clawed by the little monsters many times. It does not hurt to much but suprises the carp out of you. When I was a kid I used to catch dozens with my hands...What fun it was when I was 10-13yrs old. It got me outside and enjoying our beautiful resources...So I hope you do not get any bad ideas about this site, our memers etc. We all like what we have up here and want to keep it that way so we may seem over protective but it is because we care. Swamp is a great guy with a lot of info to give and is very passonate about what he does. Do not see fault in his opinions as this is his opinion and right to have. We need more people like Swamp in Ontario who has that much passion for our enviroment.

[yokes]

My opinion remains unchanged. Live bait is only used by people that really, just plain don't know how to fish!

This is the part I don't agree with.

[Eli]

If the purpose is for fishing bait, I would try to impress on him that live-bait fishing during open water seasons is considered, well, a little un-sporting.

I'm curious...is using live bait through the ice considered 'un-sporting' also? and if not, then why not?

[Swamp-Donkey]

Well it seems as though I've rubbed a few people the wrong way.

At least there's good ol' Almonte, watchin' my back. Thanks bud!

I pride myself on being an opinionated S.O.B. at times, at the very least I have an opinion, and as almonte was able to see, my strong stand on these issues is based soley on the preservation of our fine sport. Furthermore, these opinions are just not the dribble of some un-informed wannabe, know-it-all.

Allow me to clarify:

I was introduced to fishing at a very young age, by my now deceased grandfather, who was in his day a guide on the rideau sytem for mainly wealthy american tourists. This guy knew his stuff, and live-bait was never an option. He and I spent hundreds of days on the water pusuing Bass, Lakers, Walleye, Pike and Crappie.

As a teenager, I was employed in the fishing tackle industry(Fishin' Buddies) Where I was granted the opportunity to work alongside one of the greatest anglers to come out of Canada, Big Jim. The amount that I was able to learn from him was incredible.

Upon graduating from High-School, I attended, Sir Sandford Fleming College in Lindsay, Ont. where I was enrolled in the Fish & Wildlife technology program. This was a very condensed program which focused heavily on fisheries management, Invasive species research and fishery conservation.

Upon graduating, I worked for a period in the aquaculture industry. This was probably one of the biggest eye-openers in terms of the effects of foreign species. Having the privelage to witness stocking programs in lakes whose trout populations had been decimated due to invasive and foreign species. All because of the so called "legal" use of live bait.

I got out of the aquaculture industry, simply because there is not a lot of money to be made. However, I've remained very close friends with a gentleman, who is now a senior fisheries biologist working for Quebec.
So I am able to draw a lot of first hand information and insight on the changing attitudes twords live-bait and fisheries management in general.

During this time I had been an active member of the now defunked, "Ottawa Bass". Actively fishing competative Bass tournaments for ten years. Where again I was able to draw knowledge and insight from some of the best anglers in eastern Ontario.

Since giving up on the tournament scene I have remained an active angler, logging sometimes as many as 120 days on the water a year. It remains a life long passion for myself and any opinions that I put forth in this forum are soley for the purpose of the propagation and conservation of this incredible sport we are blessed with.

Although many of you may find my opinions "blunt and abrasive", They are based on facts. Live bait has no positive influence on fishing or the preservation thereof. So if I've Offended some people here, well really I don't care!

My position and opinions remain unchanged!

To answer you wolfman, with regards to Ice fishing, If you notice I did qualify my statement by saying, "open-water seasons" However myself, personally, I only use a small dead minnow on my jig when i'm fishing for walleye through the ice. I use large dead smelts for pike, White tube jigs for Lakers, and small micro-jigs with power wigglers for Crappie.
Fish are so lethargic in the winter that there are sometimes when you need to add a little meat to provoke a strike, my personel belief is that the minnow should be at the very least, dead. This is actually the case in every other province except, Ontario.

Cheers.

[DropShotr]

It's kinda sad watching this spin out of control. Geeze!! A 13yr old kid is fascinated with crayfish. God for bid he takes this to a fisheries career, or catching a bass on a crayfish he caught himself, or finding out if crayfish do taste like shrimp. Where is the harm in any of this? The biggest problem sportsman/sportswoman have is with ourselves. Whether it is hunting or fishing we seem to be gathered in little groups that think alike, and seem to look down on those that do/think things differently. Does it really matter if a 7lb bass was caught on a fly rod, or a flippin' stick? Is a fly rod really a fly rod unless it's split bamboo? Does it really matter if that 195pt buck was taken with a muzzleloader, a bow, or a belted magnum? Excuse me, but was that muzzleloader a flintlock? That buck was shot with a crossbow, you know they're really not a bow. They use dogs to hunt deer. That bear was shot over bait. Look at that goof in the....what is that stupid thing, a tube? look at him, thinks he's some bass pro. When we start to criticize one group, where do we stop. When do we stop? Can we stop? Gals & guys we need to be pulling together, not building walls between us. If it's legal to do then there should be no self-righteous criticisms. This is the crap that groups like PETA jump on. Playing one group against the other to take one thing away. How many of us helped defend trapping? Yea, me to. I stopped trapping when I finished high school. That stuff really didn't affect me, right? I didn't trap any more....who cares? Maybe I should have. The one common thread we have all been sewn with is a love for fishing. Lets use that thread to bind us together, not strangle each other.

DropShot'r