becoming a guide

Post by **silverlakejimmy** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:16 am

To become a legal guide in Canada you have to be approved by transport canada. Your boat has to be inspected by a Transport Canada
inspector. Complete changes to your life saving equipment have to be met to comply. Your boat has to meet the requirements set out in the small vessel monitering program. You must then take a marine first aid course this is a 18 hour course that must be passed to obtain your sticker. The first aid course has to be taken every three years as a refresher. You are then given a Canadian commercial number for your vessel and your ownership becomes a commercial ownership with Transport canada. As far as insurance goes I carry 2 million in liability
commercial insurance and it is just common sense to do so . You then register as a business in Ontario and file a tax return with the feds. Every year Transport Canada sends you a sticker when your boat and equipment comply and you need that sticker to operate for that year. I am certified to operate on inland waterways and the Bays of the great lakes. I am not allowed to operate on the great lakes, and there are weather restrictions eg. wave height, wind, fog that I am not allowed to operate during all for the safety of my customers. I am entering my 23rd year of guiding Eastern Ontario I keep my guide business low key and advertise just through word of mouth and I am fully booked every year even in these tough times. Like anything else treat people like you would like to be treated and they will come back year after year. No BS here but the total cost to run an effecient guide business without the boat and truck startup with equipment and compliance will run you 8-10 thousand. Throw in the boat and truck and it is not hard to do the math. Remember you enjoy life when you are doing what you love and thats catching WALLEYES.

Yours in Fishing
Jim Miles Guide Services

Post by **Out4trout** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:14 am

Hi Jimmy
Good info in that post - only thing I might disagree with is the $2Mil Liability - I would double that at least $4mil... $2 Mil doesn't go too far today...

Post by **silverlakejimmy** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:48 am

the ontario guides association requires 2million i am not with them i bumped to 2 million from 1 million 2 years ago . I will stick with 2million keep in mind we are not in the states and 2 million is standard

Post by **almontefisher** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:37 am

silverlakejimmy wrote:the ontario guides association requires 2million i am not with them i bumped to 2 million from 1 million 2 years ago . I will stick with 2million keep in mind we are not in the states and 2 million is standard

Actually Jimmy 2 mill is starting to be low with most companies needing $5,000,000. We have had a few liability claims top over $3 million. But if you have only $2 million then that is all they will get out of you cause you would have to declare bankruptcy.

For 1 extra guiding trip a year it makes sense to have it and to make sure you and your family are not living on the streets.

Post by **silverlakejimmy** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:36 am

thanks for the insurance advice fellas. owning an incorporated business would be an advantage. my post was to explain the ins and outs of what is required to legally start a guide business in Canada on your site there seemed to be some confusion as to what is required i hope this helps.

Post by **Trophymuskie** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:42 pm

I want to know what is going to cost over 2 million? Man if I kill both clients the same day their famillies will get 1 mil each isn't that like way to much? if I die I'm only worth a couple hundred thousand to my wife which I think is more then enough.

Then again most guides have no insurance so what are they going to get out of them?

The requirements are quite substential that is why very few of us guide legaly. Kind of hard to explain why we charge so much but when I've got over $80K in boat and equipment alone that's more then many other businesses out there. Thank god I operate 2 businesses so my truck can be split between them or my guiding business equipment would be over $120k.

A little edit to that list, one needs a marine first aid course as well as a MED A3 course and if fishing other then inland waters there is need for a RROC-M (radio) license.

Post by **MLR** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:07 pm

If you have 2 million coverage, you would get sued for 2 million

If you have 5 million coverage, you would get sued for 5 million

The lawyers do their homework, they go for the most they can get, and there is no point in going after more than is available.

People buy higher coverage, people sue for higher amounts, insurance companies pay out higher amounts and then justify rate increases every year due to higher payouts. Well thats my conspiracy theory anyway.

Post by **silverlakejimmy** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:29 am

you are 100 percent correct trophy musky and my thoughts exactly regarding insurance. I think you understand 8-10 k is conservative without the boat and truck.

Post by **DropShotr** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:38 am

A big thank-you to silverlakejimmy for explaining the nitty-grittys of all the red tape involved in becoming a legal guide in Ontario.

I think becoming a guide is a thought all of us have at least entertained.

For me the biggest factor for not really persuing it is I basically suck at fishing, however I do put on a great shore lunch. I've had far too many days if asked the question "would you pay 3-400 bucks for that? the answer would be a hell no!!

My hats off to all those that do it. Legal or under the table, no judgment from me on that issue. I've fished with both. The one common link is their passion for fishing and a deep respect for the outdoors. With all the great clients you get I know there are horror stories about clients that are jerks too. That is another reason I didn't look into it. I don't do jerks well at all......yes Virginia, I do carry a baseball bat in the boat.

DropShot'r

Post by **almontefisher** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:05 pm

MLR wrote:If you have 2 million coverage, you would get sued for 2 million

If you have 5 million coverage, you would get sued for 5 million

The lawyers do their homework, they go for the most they can get, and there is no point in going after more than is available.

People buy higher coverage, people sue for higher amounts, insurance companies pay out higher amounts and then justify rate increases every year due to higher payouts. Well thats my conspiracy theory anyway.

You better hope you don't find out the hard way.

Post by RJ » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:55 pm

Does this apply to guys guiding on ice as well?

Post by **SkeeterJohn** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:49 pm

RJ wrote:Does this apply to guys guiding on ice as well?

Depends on how thick the ice is

I think liability insurances is often overlooked by boaters in general. Especially those who think their boat isn't worth insuring because of it's value.

Even if you think you're boat isn't worth much consider being sued because you didn't see that skier in the water... or didn't see that cruiser coming which you ran into...

1 mill, 2 mill, 5 mill whatever you get make sure you all have something for 2010.. just in case!

A little off topic but worth saying regardless!

Post by **West Lake Willows** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:22 pm

Great post Jimmy. I know you mentioned that you are inland, so you don't need it, but Transport Canada just made an SVOP (small vessel operator proficiency) course mandatory if you operate in water with the ability to be more then 2 nm from shore. This is a 5 day course worth $500 - 700.

They are also talking about making it a requirement to have an "appropriate sized" float suit for everyone onboard if you are operating in water less then 50deg. Not 100% on the temp but it is something like that. If that goes through add another $5 000- $6 000 to the start up fee if you take 4 clients at a time.

The regulations don't bother me that much because it does give clients the confidence of a safe trip on the water, but I don't like the lack of enforcement. If they are going to make all these requirements have someone out there (more then 4 guys for all of Ontario) checking operators to ensure they are following these requirements.

Scott

Post by **steve-hamilton** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:36 pm

I think liability insurances is often overlooked by boaters in general. Especially those who think their boat isn't worth insuring because of it's value.

Even if you think you're boat isn't worth much consider being sued because you didn't see that skier in the water... or didn't see that cruiser coming which you ran into...

1 mill, 2 mill, 5 mill whatever you get make sure you all have something for 2010.. just in case!

A little off topic but worth saying regardless!

I fully agree liability insurance is often overlooked, however, regarding the above - homeowner's insurance (so long as you have it) will provide coverage against your legal liability arising out of your personal actions which may cause harm to others.

Post by **landshark** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:33 pm

I am a captain with a masters upgrade here in the states and it sounds like things might be kinda similar. Ok i can guide on any body of water within the US and great lakes. I carry a 1 million policy that costs me about a grand a year roughly. To get my captains license here is what i had to do. It was about 60 hrs of classroom with some 4 big tests at the end . I also had to have first aid and cpr. I also have to take physicals and be signed up with a random drug testing program.It costs about 700-800 dollars just to take the class.. If you dont do it legit then you ask for trouble. If you do it either way and dont carry a policy you are crazy. One twisted knee, hurt back, you name it. If you ask most captains who have been in the business for awhile down my way they will tell you dont plan on getting rich. The best thying most get out of it is they get to have a nice boat and equipment.