Bass tournament anglers an opportunity is here.....

[ShawnD]

You mention it’s not for everyone, and that is true.
I think if RBT broaden their reach, and catered to more “types” of anglers, without sacrificing what it’s known for, you’d have no issues filling up the field as opposed to all these announcements to try and win over anglers with a few weeks to go before opener.

X2

I'd love to hear what other think, what's holding THEM back from joining Renegade.

I know everyone is reading this conversation! LOL
I see the view count go up, the names logging in to read this thread and I get text messages about this thread.


I think it's great conversation, not an easy one to have, but if we can get feedback from anglers that are on the fence then who ever's login into fish hawk as Renegade can take something away from all of this.

[TheMaverick]

I'd love to hear what other think, what's holding THEM back from joining Renegade.

I know everyone is reading this conversation! LOL
I see the view count go up, the names logging in to read this thread and I get text messages about this thread.


I think it's great conversation, not an easy one to have, but if we can get feedback from anglers that are on the fence then who ever's login into fish hawk as Renegade can take something away from all of this.

I came back to read my reply nearly 25 times yesterday to make sure I wasn’t being too much of a jerkoff to RJ
And although it might seem as we’re ruffling feathers, it is far from the intent and purpose of this thread.
Feedback would be awesome.

[lape0019]

I am thinking the series not being for everyone is the issue. Mav said it early but it seems they are gearing everything towards the top ten and not doing enough to draw in and retain new blood. Membership is the lowest it has ever been so there must be something people are realizing.

As for me, the reason I am not fishing it right now is because of my boat. It would take me forever to get anywhere on some of the bodies RBT fish so I do not enter. I am hoping to change this is a year or so and I will revisit doing RBT then.

I will say after discussing with a buddy, I am also not a fan of fishing St. Lawrence, St, Francis and the Ottawa in one season. For me, that would literally be like throwing my entry fees away as I am not experience enough on 1, let alone the three of them to event be able to contend. This may very well be part of the issue for this season as well. I am pretty sure the Ottawa came to be because of a scheduling conflict but still.

[toobinator]

I have typed a response a number of times, then deleted it before it was sent as it sounded too aggressive, and that was not my intent. Too bad you couldn't type inflection.

Renegade too expensive. I don't think when you consider what you get it can be considered that way. The payouts are great, with an outstanding classic prize, as well as the chance to go on to qualify for the Bassmaster Classic. Lots of contingency prizes as well, and it's your choice whether or not you participate in them. Don't know the waters? They have the Master Development programme in the winter, taking teams that do well on each body of water making presentations on how to approach each body of water. I have done well in Renegade.....by times. More often I have had my butt handed to me, but it always forced me to be a better angler. And I always had fun.

Fish care is a top priority as well. Some of the other tours quote statistics as to fish mortality, but how do they know. Fish are released a few yards from the launch and forgotten. Renegade weighs the fish in water, from where they are taken to a live release boat. In the boat they are monitored. If a fish is dead in the boat, they are reports and recorded. Dead fish penalties for the anglers are the toughest as well. last year these penalties cost 2 teams a first place finish and one team a spot in the classic. This year as well all the tournaments are being televised, with the winning team of the classic getting a show to themselves. You could be a star.

So, for $1500.00 a team, you get all this and more. Sure, there are cheaper circuits to fish, and I am in no way knocking them, but less money up front translates to less payouts.

A couple of guys mentioned going from 5 tournament to 4. I was all in favour of this. When Renegade had 5, 2 of the tournaments were back to back on the same weekend. That meant 40% of our tournaments were on the same body of water. If it was a water that was tough for the team (the Ottawa for me) it made it nearly impossible to qualify for the classic. The 4 qualifier schedule worked much better for me.

So, why are the numbers down in Renegade this year? Good question. You might say too many choices, but from what I hear numbers are down across the board, with the exception of the Thousand Islands Open, So maybe it's just the perfect storm with tournaments.

If you are on the fence, this is the year to jump in with both feet.

Ed

[ShawnD]

So, why are the numbers down in Renegade this year? Good question. You might say too many choices, but from what I hear numbers are down across the board, with the exception of the Thousand Islands Open, So maybe it's just the perfect storm with tournaments.

If you are on the fence, this is the year to jump in with both feet.

Ed

They're definitely a lot of choices which spreads the fisherman/women thin through out the series/opens. But according to BAA members, they're full and OVSB had to change a bylaw to let more people into the club.. MSBassin sold out in March
(I know you can't compare Renegade to smaller clubs or single events but you mentioned across the board.)

I didn't look at the FLW/Shootout events, mostly because they're mostly opens and you can show up the day of.

Something else I'd like to say is I'm glad you took the time to write here Ed, we're all grown men and have fished this series.
We're not hear to bash any series, we're just here to talk and you could have an entirely different view on this subject and I'd still like to hear it.

They are die hards and clicks in the fishing world, but if we can come here on fish-hawk and talk. I believe it could lead to a positive conversation.

[lape0019]

Ed,

Thank you for providing some insight from a currently registered participant in the series. It would be nice to hear from a few others but I somehow doubt it will happen.

The issue here though is it with what makes the series great for the people who are there but how to get the numbers back up. I too had written a few posts today and decided not to post because they just were not conveying what I was thinking.

Having talked to another buddy here, he thinks the issue may have to do with the bodies of water this year. If. It Rideau would have been there (original water body) instead of the Ottawa, you might have more people. For me as an angler, if this was the year I wanted to fish Renegade, I just wouldn't even sign up for the single fact that the Ottawa, Franny and the St. Lawrence are all tough bodies to crack. They are all too big and are all places where I would want to pick the day I fished and not be forced to by a tournament day. I'd be more willing to join when none of these bodies were on the list but would join if they limited it to one of these per season.

I sincerely hope this series remains to be successful as it truly is the best one around for prizes. But if you can't figure out how to keep members or how to attract new members, I can't see how the sponsors would continue to be as supportive.

Adam.

[toobinator]

One of the problems that Renegade is saddled with is available bodies of water. First, we need facilities to park 85 trucks and trailers. Even though the numbers are down, accommodations must be made for a full field. The Rideau used to be on the schedule but was deemed too crowded to add another 85 boats. Safety came into the decision here, and launch facilities were a consideration as well. Muskrat-used to be on the list but deemed too small for a full field, and the list goes on. Big Rideau was on the schedule this year but their was a conflict with another circuit that had set their dates but not booked the ramp. Renegade graciously changed venues. This is an ongoing problem, with so many circuits. Booking facilities when there isn't another tournament that weekend, or the weekend before or after. So there isn't an easy answer to Renegades lakes, or any other circuit for that matter.

Really though, it seems a lot of people on this thread would like to do Renegade, but it's too expensive, or the waters aren't right, or the moon's in the wrong phase. If you want to do it, than do it. If you don't, than don't. It's as simple as that. If you're on the fence, this is the best year to give it a go. If it's not for you or your more comfortable in another circuit that's ok too. If this sounds harsh or a little pointed it's unintentional. In the end we all just want to have fun.

Ed

[FishingFreak13]

I have participated in 3 RBT Pro Ams so far and have more than enjoyed my time fishing them not only learning lots but I find it a good way to test the waters and see if i can handle a full day in the bleeping hot sun. Like most people on here it just isn't in the cards right now for me to do it for multiple reasons, Don't have the right boat, don't currently have the time to pre fish during week (trying to figure out the st Lawrence would be impossible), don't have a potential partner as most of my close circle of friends don'f fish or can't be on the water for more than a few hours. I'm a competition junky and want to face the best just to see how i stack up but other priorities have to come first before I can take that step. One day I hope it all lines up to be able to fish it.

Brian

[lape0019]

Thanks again for the info and and no, I don't see how anyone will take that as pointed.

I also get where you're coming from but if that is the attitude that you or any of the executive decides to take, don't be surprised to have the same amount of fewer teams sign up next year. The whole point of the video RJ posted was to try and drum up a few more teams either this year or in the following. Most of us are just providing our viewpoints to better the series.

[MichaelVandenberg]

First and foremost everyone should know I am the president of Renegade Bass. Not that it should at all matter. I don't make a cent of volunteering my time. Volunteering exactly cost me lots and lots of time and yes it cost me money. It may have cost me my marriage but whatever. That is my problem. I volunteer willing to provide anglers in the area an opportunity.

I was going to write a long reply on why you should fish Renegade Bass but it doesn't matter. If you aren't fishing now there is no convincing you.

How about about everyone do this? At the end of the summer answer these 5 questions:

1) How many tournament days did you fish?
2) How many non-tournament days (which include pre-fish) did you fish?
3) How much did you pay to enter the tournaments?
4) How much did you win?
5) Did you have fun?

My answers would be:
1) 9 - Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4, TIO and hopefully Classic XXII
2) 9 - I'll be lucky to get 1 ppre-fish per qualifier, 3 for the TIO and maybe 2 for Classic XXII
3) $2480
4) $5000 is my goal but it will probably be zero
5) Hopefully I have fun as that is the point

The Renegade Bass AGM in the fall is open to anyone, not just members. Feel free to voice your opinions there. It is a lot harder than voicing it here .

Mike

[MichaelVandenberg]

Ed,

Thank you for providing some insight from a currently registered participant in the series. It would be nice to hear from a few others but I somehow doubt it will happen.

The issue here though is it with what makes the series great for the people who are there but how to get the numbers back up. I too had written a few posts today and decided not to post because they just were not conveying what I was thinking.

Having talked to another buddy here, he thinks the issue may have to do with the bodies of water this year. If. It Rideau would have been there (original water body) instead of the Ottawa, you might have more people. For me as an angler, if this was the year I wanted to fish Renegade, I just wouldn't even sign up for the single fact that the Ottawa, Franny and the St. Lawrence are all tough bodies to crack. They are all too big and are all places where I would want to pick the day I fished and not be forced to by a tournament day. I'd be more willing to join when none of these bodies were on the list but would join if they limited it to one of these per season.

I sincerely hope this series remains to be successful as it truly is the best one around for prizes. But if you can't figure out how to keep members or how to attract new members, I can't see how the sponsors would continue to be as supportive.

Adam.

Adam, We move from Big Rideau because that body of water is getting hammered by other clubs and series. The cottage association is not impressed. We consider these factors when determining the locations. I hope you spent time on the St.Lawrence this summer because Renegade Bass will always have at least one event on the St.Lawrence. It is the best smallmouth fishing in the world and we cannot ignore that. This is why the Bassmaster Elites are back in Waddington this year.

[MichaelVandenberg]

I have no doubt in my mind I’ll be back fishing RBT eventually, probably sooner than I think, but really hoping for a few changes before I do.
You say it’s the first you hear about guys wanting 5 events, but it’s been talked/mentioned numerous times before, can’t help but wonder if the middle/bottom tier’s opinions are being taken into consideration both at the AGM’s, and as general feedback from potential new teams signing up.

I understand it’s not easy to run a series when big sponsors come into play, there’s the political community aspect of it as well, but if RBT wants to grow, that middle/bottom tier is where the efforts should be concentrated. The seminars are a great initiative to that said train of thought.

In recent announcements, if you win the classic, you get a full episode with JP…..when reading the comments on social media, Lenny is already a favorite to win.
What I’m saying is, there’s an obvious pattern, to an extent, of teams placing top 10 year after year, and that’s understandable, they are the best, they are what we strive to be as anglers.

You mention it’s not for everyone, and that is true.
I think if RBT broaden their reach, and catered to more “types” of anglers, without sacrificing what it’s known for, you’d have no issues filling up the field as opposed to all these announcements to try and win over anglers with a few weeks to go before opener.

Make me feel less of a donator! Don't ask me how, I don’t run a series.
Great thread btw, easier to post here, as these comments wouldn’t be well received on a biased FB post.

What do the middle & bottom tier expect? Should payouts simply include the 100% of the field, top 75%, top 50%, etc.? Tournament fishing is a performance based sport.

That said, here is what Renegade Bass has been and is doing. We are the only high level tournament series do these things to introduce anglers to tournament fishing.

As you mentioned we have the MDP seminars for any and all new teams. This year we extended invites to last year and this year Opens and Pro-AM registered participants. We also allowed anglers to come by invite from a Renegade Bass member. Participation was ok, about half capacity but these seminars should have filled the room to capacity (85).

We also have the mentorship program for the past 3 years. This program pairs new teams with veteran teams. This program does continue for this year.

We have the Instruction Pro-AM (currently 7 AMs registered) and a kid's derby (I know that is a stretch).

Last year we held a early bird draw at ever event for $500 that could only be won by teams not in the top 10. Due to low numbers this isn't continuing for this year.

We hold a draw for $250 for every team at every qualifier event thanks to Rhodes and WIlliams which not a performance based award.

We hold a draw for Navionics chips for every team at every qualifier event thanks to Navionics. Again not performance based.

With all of the above, we still offer teams that perform well 100% payouts, a boat, a TV show, a path to the Bassmaster Classic and loads of incentives. So maybe the top teams benefit the most from competing in Renegade Bass. Unfortunately that is the nature of the sport, do well you are rewarded. Don't do well, learn from it and get better so you can be rewarded.

Please tell me what more we should do it...

Mike

[MichaelVandenberg]

This has been talked about at length but nothing seems to have been done.

It's great that RBT has an amazing prize for the classic but what seems to be the biggest issue is retention of new members. Quite a few new teams that were there last year, are just not on that list. It also seems as though a couple of teams have split and joined other members resulting in half an old team staying home and the other half fishing with another partner from an old team.

How many people have also complained about there only being 4 qualifiers? When they did away with the 5th qualifier and did not reduce the price, the price per event went up by $60 and the level of competition went up as you essentially have to be on your game for all 4 qualifiers to make the classic (well, not this year but...).

And to touch on Shawns points, when Renegade was filling the field (hasn't really happened since 2010), the options were OVSB, BAA, SEBO, Renegade and one Berkley B1. All of these tournaments still exist (Sebo now being the shootouts) plus the addition to the 150 and unders (part of Renegade), FLW Canada, The Thousand Islands Open and multiple Berkley B1 events. I believe there are even more shootout events now than when SEBO was running them meaning there are more options and there are more affordable options.

All in all, there are quite a few factors that I believe are hurting the amount of people Renegade draws. Most of them have been known for a while with no resolution seeming to be even considered. Since nothing has been done, I do not see why anyone would be surprised that field size is down to its lowest point in its history.

Adam

Correction Adam. The increase from $250 to $300 per event was done when there were still 5 events meaning it cost $1500 plus others fees to fish back then. We dropped to 4 events because guys didn't like 40% of their weigh coming from one body of water as we did back-to-back qualifiers to limit the weekends required to get 5 events in. When we dropped, the cost didn't change as it remained $300 per event for a total of $1200 plus other fees for 4 qualifiers.

[RJ]

Thanks for chiming in Mike. I didn't know some of the stuff you mentioned!

This is valued conversation for sure.

Make me feel less of a donator! Don't ask me how, I don’t run a series.

Thanks for being concerned about being a jerk off to me MA so I'll try here too... It's not really up to ANY organisation to make you feel less like a donator, that is 100% up to you to do that. How did where you fished last year make you feel like less of a donator? I'll never forget how happy you and Pops were getting that Renegade check and also how happy guys were for you, that's what it's all about.

RJ

[ShawnD]

The Renegade Bass AGM in the fall is open to anyone, not just members. Feel free to voice your opinions there. It is a lot harder than voicing it here .

Mike

Mike, glad you replied!
I've been to one of those meetings.

Please tell me what more we should do it...

In regards to this ^, Mike we aren't here to protest the Series, you do a great job and we know it's a lot of work. We want to see it grow.


But the question we're all chiming in here to answer is WHY isn't Renegade filling up?
-I believe it's a price $ issue and that you would get more teams by revisiting the entry fee.
-An idea could be that Rookie Team of the Year makes the classic ( in some situations I know that the team winning that tittle would be a shoe in for the classic anyways )
-Just a thought, Making the Classic field bigger?

I'm giving you my point of view based on the fact that I have fished the pro am, the series and I run a club.
The way others view the series is of their own perspective, maybe it's too tough maybe it's the waters but the Reality is this is Renegade, you're fishing against the best for the best payout structure and prizes around.

I hope this conversation and to stay constructive and positive....
I honestly was surprised you even replied.