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Newish to Fishing - Some help please

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Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby Whateverbites » Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:30 pm

Hi all,

Due to injury I wasn't able to do my usual array of sporting activities (hiking/canoeing/rugby etc.), so I took up fishing in the Spring as a way to get outside. Having a blast!! Wished I'd started sooner (I'm 34).

I've been shore fishing like crazy around Kingston/Ottawa mostly by myself and have caught a decent amount of respectable bass and exactly one big pike (some small ones too), a good size walleye and a big ol catfish. Lots of mishaps from not knowing what I'm doing. I rented and fished from a boat for the first time a few days ago, which is miles different than shore fishing. I rented the boat in Seeley's Bay and was fishing mainly on Little Cranberry Lake and I'm headed back there on Wednesday.

Questions:
1) I've tried throwing a big-ish booyah frog over lillies and I'm getting tons of strikes, but I'm not hooking many. I hooked two fish this way, but my line snapped pretty quickly after. Good bye frog and fish. My line has snapped (not the knot, the line) just casting the frog before. I'm using 10 lb flouracarbon. Is this just too light for this kind of fishing? If so what would be more appropriate and could I use the same line for fishing "regularly" for bass?

2) I've been using a Improved Clinch Knot. Tied text book, looks fine. Usually everything is OK, but a couple bigger fish have snapped my line. Is this a knot issue or a line issue? Generally I have the drag at a decent level (I think) and try to reel a bass in quickly to prevent it from jumping or having slack in the line. Should I switch to a Palomar knot or is it probably a problem with reeling too fast or something? Or am I just tying bad clinch knots somehow?

3) Leader. I'm fishing for bass mainly, but I hooked a huge pike on the Rideau that snapped my line, so started using a leader, then stopped. Does it matter? I'm fishing for bass mainly, but I'm happy to hook anything and would love to catch pike (seems harder though). Would it help prevent my line from snapping? Does it deter fish from biting?

4) I've been using a wacky rigged worm. I'm letting it hit bottom, then giving a few yanks, then letting it settle again. Repeat. Is this smart? I've caught fish on the worm, but usually pretty soon after my cast hits or VERY close to shore so no clue if this is working. Seems to take forever to reel in like this.

6) Like I said let's say it is 15 feet deep, the weeds go up about 10 feet from the bottom. Is there any point fishing a crankbait in that 5 foot area with no weeds? Not sure if fish are deeper and will come up to bite it? Had some luck with crankbait in this scenario, but mostly very small bass.

7) Otherwise I'm trying to fish off weedbeds, in weedy areas that are decently deep and casting near stumps/logs/docks/points.

8) Tried using a weedless jig as trying to bottom fish a bit more, but it still picks up a ton of weeds. It looks like this: http://www.tacklesupplydepot.com/v/phot ... 258-01.jpg. How to fish deep intelligently?

9) I tied a 4 inch Gulp minnow to a weedless hook (Texas style I guess) with a sinker and pretty much just let it sink and slowly reel it in off bottom with some occasional tugs on the line. This make sense? I hooked a big bass that got away doing this.

10) Any point fishing very shallow areas this time of year? Talking about 6 feet of water or less.

Sorry for so many questions, I google as best I can, but half the time I seem to find some guy in Florida fishing in a pond or the discussion is way too advanced for me. Doing this all solo mostly so nobody for some sorta basic tips.
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Re: Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby cheeze » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:24 pm

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Re: Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby Mick » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:52 am

wow. you have a lot of questions. you cannot throw frogs on 10 pound fluro. Braided line, 30 lbs or more would be better. 50 lb is fine for frogs. if you like throwing crank baits then fishing above weeds is fine. nothing wrong with your approach to the wacky worms. loosing the odd bait to a pike is a cost of doing business when bass fishing. I'd say the majority of your issues here are related to line that doesn't meet your needs. you should look into using braided line and depending on what you are doing a fluor leader
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Re: Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby Mick » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:58 am

the other thing you should consider and you didn't mention it is your rod collection. most guys on here have specific setups for specific techniques. I know it's hard for a newbie to layout the cash but you cannot throw a senko and then change up your bait and throw frogs in the lillys.

for a new guy starting out check out the used gear that guys try to sell. having a good spinning setup and maybe two bait casters would be great to get you started. less changing baits and you could cover most techniques off with that.
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Re: Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby zippyfx » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:34 pm

Good set of questions. These are just my opinions and mileage may vary :)

Whateverbites wrote:
Questions:
1) I've tried throwing a big-ish booyah frog over lillies and I'm getting tons of strikes, but I'm not hooking many. I hooked two fish this way, but my line snapped pretty quickly after. Good bye frog and fish. My line has snapped (not the knot, the line) just casting the frog before. I'm using 10 lb flouracarbon. Is this just too light for this kind of fishing? If so what would be more appropriate and could I use the same line for fishing "regularly" for bass?


Generally should be good. But if the fish dive deep into the weeds you may be hard pressed. You may want to consider using a fluro leader to get additional abrasion resistance. Did you get a look at the fish? Was it a pike?


Whateverbites wrote:2) I've been using a Improved Clinch Knot. Tied text book, looks fine. Usually everything is OK, but a couple bigger fish have snapped my line. Is this a knot issue or a line issue? Generally I have the drag at a decent level (I think) and try to reel a bass in quickly to prevent it from jumping or having slack in the line. Should I switch to a Palomar knot or is it probably a problem with reeling too fast or something? Or am I just tying bad clinch knots somehow?


Slow down the retrieve. Let the fish pull on the line. The only time you really have to real quickly is when the fish is heading to you and you have to pull in the slack or too keep it from hitting structure. Hold your rod high at 45 degrees and let the rod absorb the energy of the fish so you can feel the weight of the fish. Try to work the rod tip away from the direction the fish is trying to move.
Clinch not should be fine.... Do you spit when you pull it together? Do you put enough loops? You can usually tell if it is a knot slipping or failing by the tell tale currly cue (pigs tail) left at the end when is slips. If in doubt you can learn the palomar knot.

Whateverbites wrote:3) Leader. I'm fishing for bass mainly, but I hooked a huge pike on the Rideau that snapped my line, so started using a leader, then stopped. Does it matter? I'm fishing for bass mainly, but I'm happy to hook anything and would love to catch pike (seems harder though). Would it help prevent my line from snapping? Does it deter fish from biting?


A steel leader affects the action of the lure and can affect fish sometime. If Pike are not too big (the Rideau and Ottawa tend to see smaller Pike) I go to a 20 pound fluro leader (acual fluro leader not fluro line).

Whateverbites wrote:4) I've been using a wacky rigged worm. I'm letting it hit bottom, then giving a few yanks, then letting it settle again. Repeat. Is this smart? I've caught fish on the worm, but usually pretty soon after my cast hits or VERY close to shore so no clue if this is working. Seems to take forever to reel in like this.


Try a drop shot setup to mix it up but the I hear one of the keys to wacky fishing is to use a dead stick. Let it sit for a minute or two before popping is back.

Whateverbites wrote:6) Like I said let's say it is 15 feet deep, the weeds go up about 10 feet from the bottom. Is there any point fishing a crankbait in that 5 foot area with no weeds? Not sure if fish are deeper and will come up to bite it? Had some luck with crankbait in this scenario, but mostly very small bass.


Yes. Many fish (like Pike and Bass) skirt the edge of weedbeds.

Whateverbites wrote:7) Otherwise I'm trying to fish off weedbeds, in weedy areas that are decently deep and casting near stumps/logs/docks/points.


Sounds like you are doing a good job working the structure. Also remember to fish non-physical structure like shadow edges and current seams.

Whateverbites wrote:8) Tried using a weedless jig as trying to bottom fish a bit more, but it still picks up a ton of weeds. It looks like this: http://www.tacklesupplydepot.com/v/phot ... 258-01.jpg. How to fish deep intelligently?


It looks like a good lure. I use weedless spoons and spinners as well but once you get stuck in deepweeds your going to pull up salad. I have heard of good experiences with heavy weighted (1 OZ lead) texas rigs (rigged weedless) for big weeds. Get the lure into the weeds but you need heavy line (40 lb braid) or you will loose your rig. It works easier when you are on boat and cast over the area. From shore you may want to avoid casting far out.

Whateverbites wrote:9) I tied a 4 inch Gulp minnow to a weedless hook (Texas style I guess) with a sinker and pretty much just let it sink and slowly reel it in off bottom with some occasional tugs on the line. This make sense? I hooked a big bass that got away doing this.


Makes great sense; This setup also allows you to work out any interesting structure and holes. I usually just use a curly tail grub.

Whateverbites wrote:10) Any point fishing very shallow areas this time of year? Talking about 6 feet of water or less.


I had a tournament fisherman tell me that most tournaments are won in waters 6ft or less.

Whateverbites wrote:Sorry for so many questions, I google as best I can, but half the time I seem to find some guy in Florida fishing in a pond or the discussion is way too advanced for me. Doing this all solo mostly so nobody for some sorta basic tips.


Thats what this is place is for!
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Re: Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby Whateverbites » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:26 am

Mick wrote:wow. you have a lot of questions. you cannot throw frogs on 10 pound fluro. Braided line, 30 lbs or more would be better. 50 lb is fine for frogs. if you like throwing crank baits then fishing above weeds is fine. nothing wrong with your approach to the wacky worms. loosing the odd bait to a pike is a cost of doing business when bass fishing. I'd say the majority of your issues here are related to line that doesn't meet your needs. you should look into using braided line and depending on what you are doing a fluor leader


Thanks Mick!! Sorry for all the questions, but a summer of fishing has produced tons...especially when the "big one" gets away.
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Re: Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby Whateverbites » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:27 am

Mick wrote:the other thing you should consider and you didn't mention it is your rod collection. most guys on here have specific setups for specific techniques. I know it's hard for a newbie to layout the cash but you cannot throw a senko and then change up your bait and throw frogs in the lillys.

for a new guy starting out check out the used gear that guys try to sell. having a good spinning setup and maybe two bait casters would be great to get you started. less changing baits and you could cover most techniques off with that.


I bought what I was told was a good rod/reel at Cabello's for basic bass/pike fishing. I'd tell you the make etc. but it's in the car with the wife. Cost $130 so I assume it's decent for that purpose.
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Re: Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby Whateverbites » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:38 am

zippyfx wrote:Good set of questions. These are just my opinions and mileage may vary :)

Whateverbites wrote:
Questions:
1) I've tried throwing a big-ish booyah frog over lillies and I'm getting tons of strikes, but I'm not hooking many. I hooked two fish this way, but my line snapped pretty quickly after. Good bye frog and fish. My line has snapped (not the knot, the line) just casting the frog before. I'm using 10 lb flouracarbon. Is this just too light for this kind of fishing? If so what would be more appropriate and could I use the same line for fishing "regularly" for bass?


Generally should be good. But if the fish dive deep into the weeds you may be hard pressed. You may want to consider using a fluro leader to get additional abrasion resistance. Did you get a look at the fish? Was it a pike?


Whateverbites wrote:2) I've been using a Improved Clinch Knot. Tied text book, looks fine. Usually everything is OK, but a couple bigger fish have snapped my line. Is this a knot issue or a line issue? Generally I have the drag at a decent level (I think) and try to reel a bass in quickly to prevent it from jumping or having slack in the line. Should I switch to a Palomar knot or is it probably a problem with reeling too fast or something? Or am I just tying bad clinch knots somehow?


Slow down the retrieve. Let the fish pull on the line. The only time you really have to real quickly is when the fish is heading to you and you have to pull in the slack or too keep it from hitting structure. Hold your rod high at 45 degrees and let the rod absorb the energy of the fish so you can feel the weight of the fish. Try to work the rod tip away from the direction the fish is trying to move.
Clinch not should be fine.... Do you spit when you pull it together? Do you put enough loops? You can usually tell if it is a knot slipping or failing by the tell tale currly cue (pigs tail) left at the end when is slips. If in doubt you can learn the palomar knot.

Whateverbites wrote:3) Leader. I'm fishing for bass mainly, but I hooked a huge pike on the Rideau that snapped my line, so started using a leader, then stopped. Does it matter? I'm fishing for bass mainly, but I'm happy to hook anything and would love to catch pike (seems harder though). Would it help prevent my line from snapping? Does it deter fish from biting?


A steel leader affects the action of the lure and can affect fish sometime. If Pike are not too big (the Rideau and Ottawa tend to see smaller Pike) I go to a 20 pound fluro leader (acual fluro leader not fluro line).

Whateverbites wrote:4) I've been using a wacky rigged worm. I'm letting it hit bottom, then giving a few yanks, then letting it settle again. Repeat. Is this smart? I've caught fish on the worm, but usually pretty soon after my cast hits or VERY close to shore so no clue if this is working. Seems to take forever to reel in like this.


Try a drop shot setup to mix it up but the I hear one of the keys to wacky fishing is to use a dead stick. Let it sit for a minute or two before popping is back.

Whateverbites wrote:6) Like I said let's say it is 15 feet deep, the weeds go up about 10 feet from the bottom. Is there any point fishing a crankbait in that 5 foot area with no weeds? Not sure if fish are deeper and will come up to bite it? Had some luck with crankbait in this scenario, but mostly very small bass.


Yes. Many fish (like Pike and Bass) skirt the edge of weedbeds.

Whateverbites wrote:7) Otherwise I'm trying to fish off weedbeds, in weedy areas that are decently deep and casting near stumps/logs/docks/points.


Sounds like you are doing a good job working the structure. Also remember to fish non-physical structure like shadow edges and current seams.

Whateverbites wrote:8) Tried using a weedless jig as trying to bottom fish a bit more, but it still picks up a ton of weeds. It looks like this: http://www.tacklesupplydepot.com/v/phot ... 258-01.jpg. How to fish deep intelligently?


It looks like a good lure. I use weedless spoons and spinners as well but once you get stuck in deepweeds your going to pull up salad. I have heard of good experiences with heavy weighted (1 OZ lead) texas rigs (rigged weedless) for big weeds. Get the lure into the weeds but you need heavy line (40 lb braid) or you will loose your rig. It works easier when you are on boat and cast over the area. From shore you may want to avoid casting far out.

Whateverbites wrote:9) I tied a 4 inch Gulp minnow to a weedless hook (Texas style I guess) with a sinker and pretty much just let it sink and slowly reel it in off bottom with some occasional tugs on the line. This make sense? I hooked a big bass that got away doing this.


Makes great sense; This setup also allows you to work out any interesting structure and holes. I usually just use a curly tail grub.

Whateverbites wrote:10) Any point fishing very shallow areas this time of year? Talking about 6 feet of water or less.


I had a tournament fisherman tell me that most tournaments are won in waters 6ft or less.

Whateverbites wrote:Sorry for so many questions, I google as best I can, but half the time I seem to find some guy in Florida fishing in a pond or the discussion is way too advanced for me. Doing this all solo mostly so nobody for some sorta basic tips.


Thats what this is place is for!


Thanks for all the answers, particularly on reeling fish in. I think I've been doing OK hooking fish, but way too many have gotten away. I was reeling way too fast, particularly when I hook something bigger that requires more patience.

I have not been spitting on the line - I'll do that. I've noticed the curly ends on the break, so my fault. I do five loops on the cinch, but I think I'll learn the palomar as I at least will not have any doubt that I'm doing it correctly.

Back out tomorrow morning and I'll try to put all this into practice. Thanks again. The way I look at it is that I only have so many chances to fish and am only going to get strikes so many times, so don't want to choke when I get an opportunity! Hopefully next summer get out with someone more experienced too.
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Re: Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby Mick » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:00 pm

Whateverbites wrote:
Mick wrote:the other thing you should consider and you didn't mention it is your rod collection. most guys on here have specific setups for specific techniques. I know it's hard for a newbie to layout the cash but you cannot throw a senko and then change up your bait and throw frogs in the lillys.

for a new guy starting out check out the used gear that guys try to sell. having a good spinning setup and maybe two bait casters would be great to get you started. less changing baits and you could cover most techniques off with that.


I bought what I was told was a good rod/reel at Cabello's for basic bass/pike fishing. I'd tell you the make etc. but it's in the car with the wife. Cost $130 so I assume it's decent for that purpose.

I'm sure it is a decent setup that can do a variety of different things. unfortunately something you'll come to realize as you get further into fishing is that setups are kind of like shoes to women....you can never have enough. I typically have 7 setups in my boat to head out bass fishing all setup differently, some with different lines / leaders and what not and I'm only half as crazy as most of the gang here that consider 7 setups travelling light lol.
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Re: Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby lape0019 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:24 am

1, Frog fishing in itself usually has close to a 50/50 hookup ratio. If they are not swallowing it, try a smaller frog. I recently purchased the Jackal Kaera which is a smaller frog (that just came out) and have been quite impressed with it so far. Only down side is it is a little harder to walk. 10lb fluorocarbon is a waste for you for frog fishing. I use 65lb braid but a little smaller would be ideal. Braid floats, flouro doesn't so it will always pull the nose of the bait down as well as 10lb will more than likely break off with a fish and a few pounds of weeds.

2. There is nothing wrong with the knot you are using. I have more confidence in the Palomar or the uni knot. As stated already, the key to any knot is lubrication. Fluorocarbon will heat up when cinching the knot down which will weaken the line. So a good amount of spit will reduce the heat. The heat isn't as much of an issue with Mono or braid but a wet knot will always cinch down better.

3. If you are fishing for bass mainly, a leader is not necessarily required in the traditional sense. I will sometimes tie on a 10 foot piece of flouro for jerkbait fishing or drop shotting to use as a leader but the metal ones with the swivels are really not required. Just know you are going to lose a lure here and there.

4. Sounds like you are using the wacky rig perfectly to me. There is nothing wrong with power fishing it either though. I have caught multiple fish while just twitching it and letting it sink for a second or two and then twitching it again. I have also twitching is continuously right back to the boat. There really is not a wrong way to fish this.

6. (Because it seems you skipped some numbers) Absolutely no problem fishing that 5 feet. If you can get that crankbait down to the tops of the weeds, it may hep as well. When it gets caught and you pull the crankbait free is usually when you will get a strike. This would also be a good place to use a texas rig in the grass as well.

7. Sounds like you've got this part figured out but realise the water doesn't have to be deep. Most of my bass this year have come from less than 2 feet of water. If there is enough water to cover their entire body, they will go into it.

9. That sounds almost ideal.

10. As mentioned before, if a fish can get in there, they will. I spend most of my time bass fishing in less than 5 feet of water for bass.

As for your rod, once you provide us with what you bought, (more than just the model. Length, lure rating, line rating and action/taper. Basically the specs on the blank) we can help you out a little more. For price point, you purchased a decent rod but what it will excel at will depend on the specs. I carry 10 rods in the boat for different techniques. You don't need them all but it makes life easier. Especially when wanting to use different line.

Good luck and enjoy!
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Re: Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby Whateverbites » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:36 pm

Thanks all for the help. Bit of a weird day, nothing much biting all morning aside from a good sized pike my dad caught.

Eventually tried going out to deeper water and fishing a wally diver crankbait. Landed one smallish bass then BOOM, hooked a huge large mouth. Tried to attach a picture. My dad thought it was close to 4 lbs. Biggest bass I've caught either way.

Thanks all for the tips, I was way more patient after I hooked it and lwt my drag work rather than forcing it. Great to catch such a nice fish.

Thanks again!
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Re: Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby lape0019 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:41 pm

That's a decent chunk right there!

Congrats
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Re: Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby Whateverbites » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:45 pm

lape0019 wrote:1, Frog fishing in itself usually has close to a 50/50 hookup ratio. If they are not swallowing it, try a smaller frog. I recently purchased the Jackal Kaera which is a smaller frog (that just came out) and have been quite impressed with it so far. Only down side is it is a little harder to walk. 10lb fluorocarbon is a waste for you for frog fishing. I use 65lb braid but a little smaller would be ideal. Braid floats, flouro doesn't so it will always pull the nose of the bait down as well as 10lb will more than likely break off with a fish and a few pounds of weeds.

2. There is nothing wrong with the knot you are using. I have more confidence in the Palomar or the uni knot. As stated already, the key to any knot is lubrication. Fluorocarbon will heat up when cinching the knot down which will weaken the line. So a good amount of spit will reduce the heat. The heat isn't as much of an issue with Mono or braid but a wet knot will always cinch down better.

3. If you are fishing for bass mainly, a leader is not necessarily required in the traditional sense. I will sometimes tie on a 10 foot piece of flouro for jerkbait fishing or drop shotting to use as a leader but the metal ones with the swivels are really not required. Just know you are going to lose a lure here and there.

4. Sounds like you are using the wacky rig perfectly to me. There is nothing wrong with power fishing it either though. I have caught multiple fish while just twitching it and letting it sink for a second or two and then twitching it again. I have also twitching is continuously right back to the boat. There really is not a wrong way to fish this.

6. (Because it seems you skipped some numbers) Absolutely no problem fishing that 5 feet. If you can get that crankbait down to the tops of the weeds, it may hep as well. When it gets caught and you pull the crankbait free is usually when you will get a strike. This would also be a good place to use a texas rig in the grass as well.

7. Sounds like you've got this part figured out but realise the water doesn't have to be deep. Most of my bass this year have come from less than 2 feet of water. If there is enough water to cover their entire body, they will go into it.

9. That sounds almost ideal.

10. As mentioned before, if a fish can get in there, they will. I spend most of my time bass fishing in less than 5 feet of water for bass.

As for your rod, once you provide us with what you bought, (more than just the model. Length, lure rating, line rating and action/taper. Basically the specs on the blank) we can help you out a little more. For price point, you purchased a decent rod but what it will excel at will depend on the specs. I carry 10 rods in the boat for different techniques. You don't need them all but it makes life easier. Especially when wanting to use different line.

Good luck and enjoy!



Thanks for answering. Good piece of mind to know what I'm doing isn't all dumb or how to fix it. As for my Rod Reel...says it is a President Pflueger im-8 graphite and the reel seems to be this: http://www.pfluegerfishing.com/pflueger ... 80293.html
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Re: Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby Whateverbites » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:47 pm

lape0019 wrote:That's a decent chunk right there!

Congrats


Thanks, I was thrilled. One of the last casts of the day...luckily forced my geriatric father to stay out longer than he wanted.
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Re: Newish to Fishing - Some help please

Postby ShawnD » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:51 am

Love seeing the fish-hawk crowd helping out.
Following the advice you've gotten on here will set you on the right track.

For your next combo, drive down to Paddletales in Winchester ON, loads of selection in that store and the owner has years and years and yeaaaarrrsssss of experience. :wink:
http://www.paddletales.com/
Well worth the drive.

From what I can tell, you own a spinning rod/reel, which is a great to start out with.
You should try a baitcaster next, on a heavy rod, it'll allow you to fish thick grass, wooded areas and slop. Along with heavier line 50lb braid.
Having the right tools will help you not only hook into more fish (better hook up ratio) but allow you to reel those big fish out of the dense cover.
Frogs, flipping, punching etc..

I've found Bass stuck in heavy cover with 20 ft of light line and a giant hook in their mouth twice, anglers with the wrong tools hooking into BIG fish and get warped in reeds or grass snapping their line.. With 50 or 65lb braided line, you'll pull logs out of the water before it snaps.

Have fun, the fall fishing is going to start soon, get out there and enjoy it!
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