I'll be fishing massively stained, fast water. Walleye in depths 5-15', pike shallower and in calmer stained water. If the bite is really on with my spin gear I may give the 6wt a go for fun.
Floating line or intermediate sink? (that's my two choices)
Split shot OR 5 or 7 foot lead leader before mono leader to help get the depth in the current if using the floating line???
Tapered leader or save those for another day and go with 6 ft of 10lb mono???
Can my 6wt even cast this much extra weight and including a 6 inch steel leader???
Besides buggers name me a few dirty water flies that have worked for ya'll in the past.
thanks
Bunk
Thinking Tactics for this W/E
Two techniques for fishing heavy deep water: High sticking and the Brooks method (named after Joe Brooks a famous fly angler). Both ways of presenting nymphs and are pretty much the same although in the Brooks you fish a longer line and end up fishing it like a wet fly meaning you swing it in the current at the end of the drift. High sticking involves a shorter line a dead drift and more control.
High sticking involves using enough to get your fly down and maintain a drag free drift. As I said you fish a short line, perhaps 10 feet. You swing your fly more so than casting it.
The Brooks method you can use the lead heads or sinking line and split shot. The difference is you cannot avoid a drag free drift because of the sinking lines. So rather than lift your line at drifts end you let it swing like a streamer or wet fly. So you can use a longer line, perhaps20 ft. I guess you can imagine what the casting looks like. Just lob it and keep the loops open.
All this is pretty much alot of fancy talk for the way steelheaders fished before floats. It's baitfishing with a fly rod and fly. Not pretty or elegant but it's effective. It's why there are purists snobs who only fish trout and turn there noses up at this kind of fishing. I'll be honest I sort of agree.
Now the fly. Any big ugly nymph. Although its a great helgramite imitation avoid the Wooly Bugger when nymphing as the marabou tail will keep getting hung up. You can make a good helgramite by using a variation of the bugger, Long shank #6 hook, heavily weight it. Add two black rubber feelers for a tail, black or brown chenille body, heavy black hackle palmered and clipped top and bottom then add two more black feelers out the head. Give the hook shank a bit of a bend up to give it a realistic profile.
If the bite is slow fishing this way would likely outfish spinning and hardware. If the walleye bite is on try the lead head section OR a Clouser Minnow if you have any with a floating line and fish it fairly quick. Make sure you tippet from the lead section is 3 ft or less.
For pike. Try just the floating line and leader. If the intermediate casts ok try it too. The trick is to use a streamer that is wind resistant, durable yet has a large enough profile that you can throw on a six weight. A small tarpon or salt water streamer like a Deciever. Heavy, short shank #2 hook, about 6 very long saddle hackles and some flashabou or similar for the tail. Tie some bucktail for the wing and throat. Make'm up in bright colors.
Hopefully the heavy hook, thin profile and wire leader will sink the fly just enough and the action of the soft wavy materilas and bright colurs will be enough to bring the pike up. At least you'll be able to cast ok.
Like I said I'm not normally big on using lots of weight and sinking lines. To me its not fun and as far as fly fishing is concerned its really bending the rules. What's next fly rod flippin?
High sticking involves using enough to get your fly down and maintain a drag free drift. As I said you fish a short line, perhaps 10 feet. You swing your fly more so than casting it.
The Brooks method you can use the lead heads or sinking line and split shot. The difference is you cannot avoid a drag free drift because of the sinking lines. So rather than lift your line at drifts end you let it swing like a streamer or wet fly. So you can use a longer line, perhaps20 ft. I guess you can imagine what the casting looks like. Just lob it and keep the loops open.
All this is pretty much alot of fancy talk for the way steelheaders fished before floats. It's baitfishing with a fly rod and fly. Not pretty or elegant but it's effective. It's why there are purists snobs who only fish trout and turn there noses up at this kind of fishing. I'll be honest I sort of agree.
Now the fly. Any big ugly nymph. Although its a great helgramite imitation avoid the Wooly Bugger when nymphing as the marabou tail will keep getting hung up. You can make a good helgramite by using a variation of the bugger, Long shank #6 hook, heavily weight it. Add two black rubber feelers for a tail, black or brown chenille body, heavy black hackle palmered and clipped top and bottom then add two more black feelers out the head. Give the hook shank a bit of a bend up to give it a realistic profile.
If the bite is slow fishing this way would likely outfish spinning and hardware. If the walleye bite is on try the lead head section OR a Clouser Minnow if you have any with a floating line and fish it fairly quick. Make sure you tippet from the lead section is 3 ft or less.
For pike. Try just the floating line and leader. If the intermediate casts ok try it too. The trick is to use a streamer that is wind resistant, durable yet has a large enough profile that you can throw on a six weight. A small tarpon or salt water streamer like a Deciever. Heavy, short shank #2 hook, about 6 very long saddle hackles and some flashabou or similar for the tail. Tie some bucktail for the wing and throat. Make'm up in bright colors.
Hopefully the heavy hook, thin profile and wire leader will sink the fly just enough and the action of the soft wavy materilas and bright colurs will be enough to bring the pike up. At least you'll be able to cast ok.
Like I said I'm not normally big on using lots of weight and sinking lines. To me its not fun and as far as fly fishing is concerned its really bending the rules. What's next fly rod flippin?
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Moosebunk
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Thanks Gman,
I'm going to certainly tie up a few bent hook hellgrammite type imitations today. That was a great reminder that these big crawlies come out in the spring, and although I've never seen any up here, I'm sure that pattern you suggest covers large stones.
The cast I'm actually not too worried about for the walleye. If I give anything a try this weekend it'll simply be to feel what either a pike or walleye is like on my fly rod. I've never caught the two this way. Cheating with tactics outside a purists view certainly won't even play any consideration on my part. In thought, I'd rather catch fish than hold an opinion on how I should.
For the pike, at least in the area I'll be, they will be in 1-4 feet of water, so I anything castable and big on my line oughtta catch them.
Thanks for the advice, I was really hoping for ideas to better help me catch my first walleye on a fly rod. It's supposed to stop snowing up here today and hopefully by friday water clarity and levels will be a little more suitable for fishing. Sun forcasted wed thru mon with temps mid to high teens and stable should wake all post spawners up and get them biting.
Look for my report next week.
thanks again, to the bench I go to get out some lead and black hackle.
I'm going to certainly tie up a few bent hook hellgrammite type imitations today. That was a great reminder that these big crawlies come out in the spring, and although I've never seen any up here, I'm sure that pattern you suggest covers large stones.
The cast I'm actually not too worried about for the walleye. If I give anything a try this weekend it'll simply be to feel what either a pike or walleye is like on my fly rod. I've never caught the two this way. Cheating with tactics outside a purists view certainly won't even play any consideration on my part. In thought, I'd rather catch fish than hold an opinion on how I should.
For the pike, at least in the area I'll be, they will be in 1-4 feet of water, so I anything castable and big on my line oughtta catch them.
Thanks for the advice, I was really hoping for ideas to better help me catch my first walleye on a fly rod. It's supposed to stop snowing up here today and hopefully by friday water clarity and levels will be a little more suitable for fishing. Sun forcasted wed thru mon with temps mid to high teens and stable should wake all post spawners up and get them biting.
Look for my report next week.
thanks again, to the bench I go to get out some lead and black hackle.
Moose do you have any ostrich herl?
My favourite Hellgramite pattern is a Murray's. It's simply a black or brown Wooly Bugger with rubber feelers and instead of marabou you substitute ostrich herl. The ostrich is stiffer and does not foul on the hook like marabou does when fished as a nymph.
I make a variation with brown ostrich, brown rubber and a heavily dubbed spiky body of muskrat, guard hairs and all. I wrap one of those real soft gray/brown grizzly hackles. The whole thing has a real nice smoky brown color similar to natural nymphs and reminiscent of those smoke rubber grubs that work so well for smallmouth. Worked real good for big browns in the Adirondacks. I doubt it be that hot on your stained water though.
I do think you have hellgramites up north in your rivers. Scary looking things.
About fishing with a ton of weight on a fly rod; I'm a traditionalists but I'm a hypocrite too because obviously by my advice I've done a fair bit of it myself.
My favourite Hellgramite pattern is a Murray's. It's simply a black or brown Wooly Bugger with rubber feelers and instead of marabou you substitute ostrich herl. The ostrich is stiffer and does not foul on the hook like marabou does when fished as a nymph.
I make a variation with brown ostrich, brown rubber and a heavily dubbed spiky body of muskrat, guard hairs and all. I wrap one of those real soft gray/brown grizzly hackles. The whole thing has a real nice smoky brown color similar to natural nymphs and reminiscent of those smoke rubber grubs that work so well for smallmouth. Worked real good for big browns in the Adirondacks. I doubt it be that hot on your stained water though.
I do think you have hellgramites up north in your rivers. Scary looking things.
About fishing with a ton of weight on a fly rod; I'm a traditionalists but I'm a hypocrite too because obviously by my advice I've done a fair bit of it myself.
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Moosebunk
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I didn't get a chance to tie anything up today. Checked over 6 rods, preset drags, and dug through about 1000 flies just to pick a good hundred or so.
For nymphs I chose Montana (cause it's got a chartreuse thorax and walleye love chartreuse), some big stone flies, czechs, hares ears, and beaded prince.
Took a few dries in case, klinkenhammer, Griffiths, bivisible, beetles.
Some dumbell headed hairwings like clousers, frankies and woollies.
More hairwings like Mickey Finns, black nose dace and brook trout.
Streamers are woollies, Inc. silver minnow and hammels and the like.
Took a couple poppers in small and medium sized foam heads, also some deer hair poppers, some tied with bucktail legs and rubber arms like a frog, and others with zonker tails.
Gotta work the next two days then I'm gone, doubt I'll have time to tie much. Did cut some 6 foot and 4 foot 10 and 14 lb mono leaders today though so I could loop them up ahead of time.
No ostrich herl here. Not many recipes call for it, unless you're tying butts for atlantic flies like highlanders and thunder and lightening.
later gman, thanks for the replies
For nymphs I chose Montana (cause it's got a chartreuse thorax and walleye love chartreuse), some big stone flies, czechs, hares ears, and beaded prince.
Took a few dries in case, klinkenhammer, Griffiths, bivisible, beetles.
Some dumbell headed hairwings like clousers, frankies and woollies.
More hairwings like Mickey Finns, black nose dace and brook trout.
Streamers are woollies, Inc. silver minnow and hammels and the like.
Took a couple poppers in small and medium sized foam heads, also some deer hair poppers, some tied with bucktail legs and rubber arms like a frog, and others with zonker tails.
Gotta work the next two days then I'm gone, doubt I'll have time to tie much. Did cut some 6 foot and 4 foot 10 and 14 lb mono leaders today though so I could loop them up ahead of time.
No ostrich herl here. Not many recipes call for it, unless you're tying butts for atlantic flies like highlanders and thunder and lightening.
later gman, thanks for the replies