Yup..always has always will...Come on down this way some time BA and I will show you some nice little spots for Specks and Brookies...Todd B. wrote:Brook Trout = Speckled Trout
Quebec Reds
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Interesting conversation.
What would Charles Darwin have to say about this ............evolution.
OK, the way I ses it, the Quebec Red gene pool comes from Artic Char. Over several millennium the char in those Quebec lakes evolved into the Quebec Red.
Splitting hairs? Aroura Trout/Brook Trout
DropShot'r
What would Charles Darwin have to say about this ............evolution.
OK, the way I ses it, the Quebec Red gene pool comes from Artic Char. Over several millennium the char in those Quebec lakes evolved into the Quebec Red.
Splitting hairs? Aroura Trout/Brook Trout
DropShot'r
Landlocked Arctic Char are native to some lakes in Quebec, New Brunswick and some New England states. A Quebec red is simply a local name that has however been confused more often with a Brook Trout. Every supposed picture I have seen of a so-called Quebec Red was a Brookie. It may have an intense red coloration but that is a combination of water color, diet and time of the year caught. It is not a sperate species. I have caught brilliant red brookies from a tiny creek on the outskirts of Kingston. There is river in the Adirondacks that is so tannin stained you cannot see 6" down and the brookies that come from it are scarlett.
Since you mentioned it:
I suppose that when the last Ice Age ended some 10,000 years ago, and when the water level dropped out of the Champlain Sea, lake-fulls of typically andromadous(sp?) arctic char got stuck inland. What to do, what to do....adjust or die.....they adjusted to the exclusively freshwater existance, relatively unchanged. Their range included the Quebec North Shore, Labrador, Gaspe, New Brunswick, and into the northern states.
Eventually in Quebec, they came to be called Quebec Reds, Truite Rouge en francais, and were much sought after as a game fish well in to the mid 20th century. (Vermont and Maine call their remnant populations Blueback Trout). Everybody used to know what Quebec Reds were, landlocked arctic char. Not so much any more.
These days, the government endorsed scam is to call speckled trout Quebec Reds, even though they are not. It's all rather hush-hush regarding the deception now. The term Quebec Red hold a certain nationalistic cache which the province would like to stay intact and accessable to the public. The agents de faune, outfitters, and pechers continue the charade, having been told that a form of speckled trout are Quebec Reds, which is not true.
I have been told that they still gill-net some Gatineau lakes to monitor populations of true Reds, although most of the strong populations are north of Quebec City in the Laurentians.
Having fished for trout in Quebec for almost 40 years, I have never caught a Quebec Red myself. I have pulled 18 pound arctic char from the Coppermine River in Nunavut. Exactly the same species. Different location.
I suppose that when the last Ice Age ended some 10,000 years ago, and when the water level dropped out of the Champlain Sea, lake-fulls of typically andromadous(sp?) arctic char got stuck inland. What to do, what to do....adjust or die.....they adjusted to the exclusively freshwater existance, relatively unchanged. Their range included the Quebec North Shore, Labrador, Gaspe, New Brunswick, and into the northern states.
Eventually in Quebec, they came to be called Quebec Reds, Truite Rouge en francais, and were much sought after as a game fish well in to the mid 20th century. (Vermont and Maine call their remnant populations Blueback Trout). Everybody used to know what Quebec Reds were, landlocked arctic char. Not so much any more.
These days, the government endorsed scam is to call speckled trout Quebec Reds, even though they are not. It's all rather hush-hush regarding the deception now. The term Quebec Red hold a certain nationalistic cache which the province would like to stay intact and accessable to the public. The agents de faune, outfitters, and pechers continue the charade, having been told that a form of speckled trout are Quebec Reds, which is not true.
I have been told that they still gill-net some Gatineau lakes to monitor populations of true Reds, although most of the strong populations are north of Quebec City in the Laurentians.
Having fished for trout in Quebec for almost 40 years, I have never caught a Quebec Red myself. I have pulled 18 pound arctic char from the Coppermine River in Nunavut. Exactly the same species. Different location.
this is.truite rouge du quebec.=onble chevalier.
http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/faune/peche/ ... valier.jsp
a lot off peoppe are calling brook trout truite rouge becasue is as more red(rouge) .
and here brook trout.
http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/faune/peche/ ... ntaine.jsp
sorry its in french but what better to explane a quebec trout then a quebec mnr site.
lakers
http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/faune/peche/ ... ouladi.jsp
species
http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/faune/peche/ ... /index.jsp
on a lot off quebec site..brook trout=truite rouge..so there is a prob wit what is what here...mmmmmm
joco
http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/faune/peche/ ... valier.jsp
a lot off peoppe are calling brook trout truite rouge becasue is as more red(rouge) .
and here brook trout.
http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/faune/peche/ ... ntaine.jsp
sorry its in french but what better to explane a quebec trout then a quebec mnr site.
lakers
http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/faune/peche/ ... ouladi.jsp
species
http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/faune/peche/ ... /index.jsp
on a lot off quebec site..brook trout=truite rouge..so there is a prob wit what is what here...mmmmmm
joco
Great link Joco
Here is the same link translated.
http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl ... n%26sa%3DG
Here is the same link translated.
http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl ... n%26sa%3DG
I have been made aware of an article by Pascal Blais in the French magazine 'Aventure Chasse et Peche' 2008. vol.16, #4 about l'omble chevalier. Most interesting......they show in great detail the difference between arctic char and brook trout. This is good stuff. And they even call them truite rouge in the caption!!! This is great! Here are some pics they use to distinguish.
Now this should put the issue to rest, HOWEVER, I still think the MRNF is trying to pull a fast one here. If you look at the pic of the Quebec Red that is posted on their web site (see below), as supplied by Joco, it looks exactly like a brook trout!!! They are doing it again!!! A brook trout is the ONLY trout you sill see with distinct red spots and a purple halo. EVER!
I don't think the MRNF is necessarily the best authority on this topic, as they are the ones trying to con the public into believing brook trout are Quebec Reds!! They are not.
Here's another pics of a true Quebec Red I have pulled from my bookshelf (Game Fish of North America. Silvio Calabi).
Dosen't look like the MRNF pic does it?
Now that you guys know the difference, go catch those Brook trout in Quebec.
Now this should put the issue to rest, HOWEVER, I still think the MRNF is trying to pull a fast one here. If you look at the pic of the Quebec Red that is posted on their web site (see below), as supplied by Joco, it looks exactly like a brook trout!!! They are doing it again!!! A brook trout is the ONLY trout you sill see with distinct red spots and a purple halo. EVER!
I don't think the MRNF is necessarily the best authority on this topic, as they are the ones trying to con the public into believing brook trout are Quebec Reds!! They are not.
Here's another pics of a true Quebec Red I have pulled from my bookshelf (Game Fish of North America. Silvio Calabi).
Dosen't look like the MRNF pic does it?
Now that you guys know the difference, go catch those Brook trout in Quebec.
Last edited by Maple on Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Maple....
This pic below is DEFINATELY a Speckled trout...
http://www.fish-hawk.net/photogallery/d ... ?pos=-8452
This one looks similar to a Splake as the tail is not square and there's no red spots or purple halo ....
http://www.fish-hawk.net/photogallery/d ... ?pos=-8432
Ya gotta love these topics!!!
This pic below is DEFINATELY a Speckled trout...
http://www.fish-hawk.net/photogallery/d ... ?pos=-8452
This one looks similar to a Splake as the tail is not square and there's no red spots or purple halo ....
http://www.fish-hawk.net/photogallery/d ... ?pos=-8432
Ya gotta love these topics!!!
Last edited by troutnmuskiehunter on Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'd say splake.
Splake can look ALMOST like a speckled, all the way to ALMOST like a lake trout, depending on the number of back-crosses in the breeding.
If your fish shows that many speckled trout characteristics, that is the one you posted TroutMuskiHunter: white, black then red pectoral fins, vermiculations on the back, square tail, dorsal fin shorter at the trailing edge, it's not a true Quebec Red. If it has no distinct red spots with purple halos on the sides, it's not a pure-bred speckled trout either. So I'd say splake, and a nice one too!
Bass Addicts 3.11 pound speckle is a splake
Splake can look ALMOST like a speckled, all the way to ALMOST like a lake trout, depending on the number of back-crosses in the breeding.
If your fish shows that many speckled trout characteristics, that is the one you posted TroutMuskiHunter: white, black then red pectoral fins, vermiculations on the back, square tail, dorsal fin shorter at the trailing edge, it's not a true Quebec Red. If it has no distinct red spots with purple halos on the sides, it's not a pure-bred speckled trout either. So I'd say splake, and a nice one too!
Bass Addicts 3.11 pound speckle is a splake
TroutMuskiHunter,
No red spots with purple halos? Square tail, vermiculations, white, black and red pectoral fins.
Splake.
I don't know where you and Bass Addict are fishing, but his first pic could be a speckle, can't see the spots and halos clearly, and the second, his 3.11 pound speckle is definitely a splake.
Depending on the number of back-crosses in the breeding, a splake can ALMOST appear as a speckle, or ALMOST as a lake trout.
Most people THINK they are catching a certain kind of fish, and just keep calling it that for lack of a better understanding of what they really have.
There is no problem with the scientific classification of fish, there is only a problem with the identification of fish by people who catch them. If you aren't able to tell by external characteristics, there are tons of numbers of rays, vertabrae, measurements etc. you can use.
Absuloute identification of speckles/splake/lake trout is easy. When you open up the belly, look at the stomach. You will notice that it is covered with white worm-like projections called piloric cercae (sp?). Count them.
Brook trout (Salvilinus fontinalis) have 23 to 55.
Splake have 65 to 85.
Lake trout (Salvilinus namaycush) have 93 to 208.
Then you'll know 100% sure. Until then, you're just guessing.
No red spots with purple halos? Square tail, vermiculations, white, black and red pectoral fins.
Splake.
I don't know where you and Bass Addict are fishing, but his first pic could be a speckle, can't see the spots and halos clearly, and the second, his 3.11 pound speckle is definitely a splake.
Depending on the number of back-crosses in the breeding, a splake can ALMOST appear as a speckle, or ALMOST as a lake trout.
Most people THINK they are catching a certain kind of fish, and just keep calling it that for lack of a better understanding of what they really have.
There is no problem with the scientific classification of fish, there is only a problem with the identification of fish by people who catch them. If you aren't able to tell by external characteristics, there are tons of numbers of rays, vertabrae, measurements etc. you can use.
Absuloute identification of speckles/splake/lake trout is easy. When you open up the belly, look at the stomach. You will notice that it is covered with white worm-like projections called piloric cercae (sp?). Count them.
Brook trout (Salvilinus fontinalis) have 23 to 55.
Splake have 65 to 85.
Lake trout (Salvilinus namaycush) have 93 to 208.
Then you'll know 100% sure. Until then, you're just guessing.