JUDGEMENT DAY FOR FISH-HAWK PEOPLE BY ANOTHER BOARD

[XrapAttack]

they can't bring us down!!!

where is the fish crisp!

[CNs]

mikey

I beleive it was an adimtted and corrected judgement error on urbananglers part . And correct me if I'm wrong no on else had flipped over toFH to critize . Urbanangler , hats off to you for dealing with it , all be it after the fact , maturely and promptly. I fully support the catch and circumstances of it . But I can also appreciate that just because it's there and the limit is high , doesn't mean you should exercise your limit everytime. I don't believe there is any wrong on either part , just lack of information and a huge misunderstanding

Muskymatt

Agreed Matt...

1: UA: We made an error in judgement Please accept our apologies"
2:FH: Apologies acepted, good luck and tight Lines"

nuff said. No value added in exchanging "My Dad can beat up your Dad posts.." 3 pages no less....this "if you don't do like us, you're a poacher" preaching has to stop everytime someone posts a pic of a dead fish! It turns my stomach how fast people are to play judge and jury on peoples posts! Then you'll read a post like "Did I miss something"....is anyone REALLY wondering WHY people have stopped coming and posting here??? Posts like this make it more than obvious to me....why can't we all simply fish...post our experiences and adventures without fearing being slandered or critisized about the way the fish was held...how many were kept if any...if a picture was taken...was it handled properly....was it a pic of an OOS fish....this anal obsession with mindless details have crippled this board to the point one is better not posting to avoid the barrage of criticism from a group of people who have ALL at one time or another have been guilty of their own accusations! This behaviour has to stop if this board is going to survive....personally....I've just about had enough. I apologize if I've hurt anyones feelings....but to be honest...it hurts my feelings to see such behaviour from people I expected to be above the type of comments in this thread

Regards,
Mikey

HEY MIKEY ONLY ONE WORD



RUMBLE !

[Mike the 'Tender]

I'd like to apologize for doing something that seems underhanded or secretive, I wasn't out to just flame some people or make anyone look bad.

I'm not from the same region as many of you. I'm in the middle of a sprawling metropolis where I don't have the luxury of finding 50 keeper trout in one outing, because there's just too much pressure for everyone to do that.

In my neck of the woods this past summer, it was adviseable not to fish rivers for trout at all because the waters were too warm, the fish were low on oxygen, and even releasing them may still lead to fatility. These same rivers are getting new residential developments put on their banks, of course adding to the issues our fish face.

Over the years I've become more involved in conservation, and through that have realized things I never knew about what plagues GTA waters.

Through volunteering to try to help preserve and protect some of the GTA waters in question, I've undergone an attitude shift where I am now deeply and rightfully concerned that later in life, my grandkids won't have much to fish for here other than Gobies and Ruffe. As a result, I now fish with a feeling of responsibility, the responsibility being to leave the place how I found it (or better), and also to share what I know with new fisherpeople. I release all my fish, though I don't expect others to.

Many of the folks here at Fishkawk on the other hand, have much different waters at your disposal, waters that aren't pounded daily, that perhaps aren't littered with boatloads of garbage, and that are definitely not as overpressured as the few rivers I have close to me.

For the most part, both here and at Hipwader, nearly everyone seems to have been able to keep this discussion and difference of opinions civil, which is cool. Anyone who can't, well tough, you're entitled to your opinion too.

The bottom line is, the people who caught the fish were not at fault in any way, nor did I ever claim they were, for keeping their limit of fish. Sorry if I rubbed you guys the wrong way. I also hadn't realized that such aggressively stocked places existed, because they sure don't in my back yard, unless I go to a trout farm.

In the end, I haven't taken home a single trout from [wild] Ontario waters in my entire 15+ years of fishing. Can you blame me for getting my stomach turned over seeing 50 of them at once? I didn't want to spoil all the backpatting taking place here by posting this non-conformist 2 cents, so I took my opinion elsewhere to have a discussion with like-minded people, no insult intended whatsoever.

Sorry for any rift caused, just a difference in regions, resources, and attitudes, but we're all fisherman in the end, no?

Tight lines.

This is not meant to be a flame. I simply want to show what I know.

I have fished both areas of Ontario, the GTA and here in Ottawa. I'm simply going to try to be a mediator here.

UrbanAngler, I'm originally from Pickering. I grew up and lived there for 18 years. And though I would never keep a a 'Bow out of Lake Ontario, I fully support catch and keep for those who choose to do it (I myself like to keep a couple of Rainbows that I catch in the summer in Muskoka). There's a reason the Ministry of Natural Resources have chosen their catch limits that they have, as well as the right to impose moratoriums, and change the limits. Now, for Quebec, granted, it may be different, but I'm going to focus on Ontario because thats what I know.

Back in my first year, I wrote a paper on Fishing and Hunting limits. I don't remember the numbers exactly, but believe me, there's a lot of time and number crunching put in by the Ministry's biologists, as well as input from men on the ground (CO's and DCO's).

Unfortunately, I also know where you're coming from. With years of pollution and heavy metals being dumped into Lake Ontario, it has with out a doubt has affected fishing, and the tributaries that feed the Lake. But you have to remember, that just because it's not something that happens in Toronto, does not mean that it is to be considered a heinous act.

For those of you not familiar with fishing in GTA, believe me, it can be ok, but unless you like getting a mouthful of Cadmium, Arsenic, Nickel and god knows what else with your fish, you don't want to eat it. Even then there is way too much pressure on the fisheries to sustain everyone catching their limit. For those from Eastern Ontario, I can see why there would be some knockers knotted up over people's views from "Western Ontario". The fishing is great up here.

For everything I've said here, my point is (for everyone): Use Discretion. If you do not know the details about a post, either you saw something that you disagreed with and simply did not read the post then say nothing, or there were no details included, ask questions. Find out the truth before you do something like this. Jumping to conclusions and assumptions are just plain bad for everyone.

I'm not trying to sound holier than thou, I did this on another board a few years back and ended up leaving in embarrasment. It had to do with politics and had nothing to do about fishing, but what I did there applies to here. Urban, as I said, I understand where you're coming from, and to tell you the truth, I was not even familiar with the original post with pictures until I saw this thread. Just next time, stop and think, let yourself cool down, don't use your heart and make a mistake like I did.

Thanks,

-Mike

[getnjiggywithit]

I saw something that I believe has been a no-no within the fishing board community – up to now.

Here is the thread::--

http://flyfishingforums.hipwader.com/vi ... php?id=437

I believe the contents of the thread is self-explanatory and so I will make no comments. Do you have one?

Crap-starter

Fish-Hawk is an excellent board and keep up the good work guys

no coment eh??? just silently stirring the pot
fixed your handle for ya
I'm really surprised that the mods let this one go so long since the only other person who can delete this thread is the person who started it and, there too busy stirring......

[muskymatt]

die thread die

[carp-starter]

I am sorry for not replying or saying something sooner. I made a short trip to visit my mother in Montreal. And I do have things to say but I will not say much for fear of being deleted. I do not like confrontations. It is more sensible to have a rational and logical discussion, which is called COMMUNICATION. “Rational and logical” to me means BASED ON KNOWLEDGE. I say nothing when I know nothing or little. Many times on the boards a poster retaliates when there is a reply that is not in agreement. If I were to post something, do I want to have 50 guys to reply and agree with me? NO!!!! I would learn nothing. No wonder that “LOL” is used frequently on the net.

I myself do not keep fish – it is my choice – and I do not judge others who do keep fish unless a limit is kept all the time or there is a fish factory in keeping every small fish that can be caught – even if it is legal. The last time I kept fish was in 1997 when I caught some perch for the first time. Twenty three years ago I did keep my very first steelhead (have not kept any since then). And I have not kept any fish until about 36 years ago when I kept my last limit of fish – 10 brown trout, New York state where it is similar as where you guys went in Quebec – stock it well. And I did keep walleye, the only time I caught walleye - 5 or 6 walleye (I have a black and white photo) at the cottage north of Montreal – never saw walleye before then nor after at that location in the river. Oh the walleye were caught about 47 years ago. I have not really eaten any fish that I caught except for the brown trout from N.Y state. I have never eaten bass nor pike but I would like to try pike – I guess I will have to go to Waldman’s in Montreal to buy pike. Here is a JAB. Montreal has so much over Toronto that it is not funny.

So when I saw the photos of your fish, I was really excited that you caught, kept and ate the brook trout. And my very first reaction to Hipwader - “JEALOUSY”. I would also be excited to catch my limit of fish and have a feast. I can just imaging that most people would jump on me if I were to do it here. But based on my history of keeping fish, I believe I deserve a limit of fish in the future. So, I hope you guys are feeling good and hope that the trout tasted was gooooooooood. Ha, ha, ha. Good for you. NEXT TIME, GIVE ME A CALL “.

There is an unwritten law or rule that there is to be no posting of bad information from one board to another – meaning, basically to put down a board or their members on their own board. I believe that the term I should use is “to flame”. There is enough infighting within boards. I am aware of two boards where the moderators informed the members to “not to do certain things” or else.

Now to the fine points. I have read all posts but there are a lot.

There was another site where the same thing happened – take a thread from another site (with photos) and post it with a change of heading to make it look bad. The very first reply demanded that the board address be removed because it might reveal fishing spots on river X. Posts later proved him to be wrong. The link address was removed because the pictures might reveal the locations on river X. Paranoia???????? The poster of the tread did apologize to the other members saying that he was bored – but the apology was for the photos that might reveal fishing locations and not for putting up the nasty thread. Nothing but a joke.

I have read UrbanAngler’s apology. His post was not short. What an apology, especially when he states “I'd like to apologize for doing something that seems underhanded or secretive, I wasn't out to just flame some people or make anyone look bad.” When he states, “seems underhanded or secretive”, I do have a problem. When I am wrong, I simply apologize and do not list excuses. I do not go on and on with explanations – check his post. If I may say so, it was underhanded to extract a photo from Fish-Hawk, and post in on the Hipwader board – with a totally new heading. At least a reference back to Fish-Hawk would have been more fair. The Fish-hawk website address did show up, but a bit later. And if it was not to flame or to make anyone look bad, then what was the reason? Basically I believe it was to ram one person’s beliefs down the throats of others and of course make them look bad.

UrbanAngler is correct that fishing here in the Toronto GTA and the Ottawa area. I also did not have a chance to fly fish for resident trout because of the extremely high water temperatures in our streams here – STRESS on fish when caught. But then on the other hand, I like what Carlco said.

He posted “I'm too stressed at work to get stressed ove fish”. Well said Carlco. So what is more important? Let me state that fishing is more limited in the Toronto area.

I think that members from one board should not worry what members of another board do. The opportunities may be totally different.

Here in the Toronto GTA we have certain problems. There is too much poaching and snagging and nothing much is done. It is stated that the charter boats harvest only 5% of the steelhead. So, who takes the remaining 95%?

There is one thing one must be aware of. Some of the boards here do not care about all fish and all rivers. The fish in question is the steelhead/rainbow and mostly the Credit River. And many ice fishermen are keeping 100 perch limits.

I have one more thing to say. UrbanAngler stated “Sorry for any rift caused, just a difference in regions, resources, and attitudes, but we're all fisherman in the end, no?”

I would hope so but some Hipwader members may not. I read a thread 1 or 2 summers ago on Hipwader. A fellow asked if it was OK to use spinning tackle and not fly fishing tackle on the Upper Credit. I do remember 1 reply – very precise and polite. Spinning was OK subject to: trout possession limit is zero (0), artificial with single-pointed barbless hooks must be used and that organic bait not allowed. And then an opinion was also given – that spin fishermen will be looked down by the fly fishermen on the Upper Credit. Does it make a difference what a person uses legally? Are fly fishermen so much more special?

I am sorry for the ramble. Have fun in fishing and eating your catch you guys from Fish-Hawk. Good luck Fish_Hawk – a very interesting and stable group of people.

Carp-starter

And a word for getnjiggywithit. When you provide a quote (in your post) which is acceptable, make sure that you do not alter that quote and make it look like the original. You changed “carp” to “crap”. You have a lot of things to learn.

[big-o]

I been away from this board for awhile now(now you know why, this type of crap)...infact the last time I was on was just after ICEMANs trip...I wanted to see how they fared out...They did well as we can all see, I read the thread on Hip Wader...and Was a little up set with the title , but these guys are ture C&R guys...great, we are bait fishermen...meaning not fly fishers, no harm there The only problem was that they only quoted part of the post....enough to make the guys look bad, BUT...they retracted the Statment, appolagizes were made, lets move on, and hopfuly we can learn from each other

[getnjiggywithit]

Carp-starter
OK so maybe I got a little carried away..........but it did seem kind of funny that you had no comment........
I know your not the one who started the message board flamming but you did start this thread!!........and that only added fuel to the fire