Need Help Reporting a Crime

[FromTheNorth]

I would just like to clarify that when you say "they" (i hope)you mean "these individuals"(who just happen to be native); and that your claim that native people are selling cigarette's and booze to minors was a completely unfounded allegation. In no way relevant to this issue.

[RJ]

Mr. MyButt,

How do you know who left the carcasses?....Were you there to see who did it?

You are walking on a very edgy subject....and what I do suggest is that you do a little research before you continue to go off on this rant....I know someone is just waiting to hammer you to bits with info that will make your head spin...

FYI...the only charge I've ever seen handed out to anyone for selling fish was the fact they were selling fish that according to the "Guidelines to Eating Sportfish" deemed them as unsafe to eat....

Go to Quintefishing.com....read up on a few things before you continue to spout...just a suggestion...

RJ

[chief itchybum]

sounds like you really have a beef big time, some points are valid for sure....now...myself being native...yes we do have rights to fish and hunt..and you will always find those who abuse the system whether they are a licenced angler or not....there are those who break the law...but to me...it really sounds like your targeting one group and one group only...your going to the extreme on one issue...why not hit swetshops and not buy your Nike shoes etc? what about all the commercial fishermen that over fish their quota's? i've personally been on those fishing tugs when they are out there draggin the net for smelts...and let me tell ya...you think the few pickeral your seeing is upsetting? let me tell you my friend...you haven't seen a damn thing!!! settle yourself down and use your head...you were going in the right direction and they you let your anger get in the way...you have the right to be upset...and like i said...being native myself...i fish...i hunt...i provide to those who cannot go out and do that themselves...i have caught more than i licenced fisherman and never sold them...only gave to those in need...have you ever stopped to think that those people selling those fish is the only income they have? perhaps the only thing they know how to do skill wise? and really...not to open the CAN OF WORMS but...when it comes to our Natural Resources here in Canada or anywhere else...is it the Natives to blam for low stocks? i think not!!!
do what you gotta do...just be safe and play smart.
and for gods sake...take a kid fishing and teach them well
just one mans opinion on the subject
tight lines folks

[MyButt]

I would like to make it quite clear now. My post were not intended to be rude towards any one culture. I was asking how to prevent illegal sales. I ask for Fish Hawks forgiveness and if I have offended anyone on this matter, please forgive me, as maybe I did not handle the matter as appropriate as I should have.

For this I hope you may except my apologizes, I’m sorry.

As for the pile of fish being left behind, it's in front of a local cottage and police were called, one man was charge out of the four men, he was not native, I never said it was only native cultures that left the pile there, I was not targeting one culture.

Also I am NOT putting the blame on Natives, I'm not saying it's only their culture, when it comes to fishing, I do believe everyone should follow the laws set. If someone only knows of one way to live fine, but if someone would teach the one to do it correctly, there would not be a problem, this goes for everything, every one. If you give fish, meat bread etc away for free to help another or put clothing on them, this I praise you, as it's always good to help those who need help.

[Kpin]

C'mon guys, let's not let an important topic, fly into something unpleasant, when it can be a positive thing ultimately.

I don't think MyButt is specifically targetting and characterising ALL natives as poachers or anything else. Just that some are obviously doing it.
The same can apply to our American neighbors to the south. (No offence to all my Yank friends). In my opinion, aside from the ones we know or see practicing the same respect for our nat. resources as us, I beleive that some of our cousins to the south do more damage than our native people or our anglers in general or even combined for that matter. Simple case of the "it's not my backyard" syndrome.

Good and bad in all races, religions and credes folks. We can't just categorize a group wholely and I don't think that was the intention. Not all of us are gifted in a way that our thoughts come accross exactly as meant when typed. We have to keep that in mind, when writing and reading a post.

Chief made a good point about netting smelts and the ramifications of other species caught. It helped put things into perspective for me and I had a clear picture in my mind.

Hardly think there is any ill will in MyButt's posts towards anyone but the people poaching. He's obviously pationate about our fishstocks and the abuse of them.

I'd hate to see a thread that we might learn from turn into mudslinging, go off track and lose sight of the big picture that we all care about...our fisheries and nat. resources.

[FromTheNorth]

Kpin,
I had no problem with MyButt's original messages about a group of individuals who were breaking the law by selling fish to restaurants. But even then, the real criminals were the restaurants for buying this meat. As mentioned by chief itchybum, that income could be crucial to these individual's families. But... I have to agree that these individuals were breaking the law.

My problem started when My butt started accusing Native people of selling booze and smokes to minors.
Now either these individuals are some of the baddest dudes on the planet. Opperating a poaching ring durring the day and then "selling smokes and booze to minors" by night, OR he was telling us about the crime comitted by these individuals, then informing us about his opinions of native people in general.

I have to say, coming from a northern comunity that is part of and surrounded by Native reserve land. When I was young I got my underage booze from the same place most kids do. Friends/ brothers or the most common... THE BEER STORE/LCBO. I also found no problem buying cigarettes from almost ANY store. I would love to hear where MYBUTT got his information.

I also know of native fishermen who do milk pickerel and fertilize eggs if possible.
HOW MANY FISH HAWKERS USE SALMON EGGS FOR FISHING? How many people on this site can actually admit to milking salmon and fertilizing eggs instead of curing and bagging them? I'm sure there are actually some that do, I would wager over 95% don't. I'll admit I never have.

I didn't see anyone get worked up a month ago when there was a post about roe bags. Maybe I'm mistaken, but isn't the salmon population in worse condition than the pickerel?(I don't really know)
If by chance the pickerel are worse off, as mentionned by chief itchybum, native fishermen are not the reason.

I agree that not everyone has the gift of the digital gab, but there are many french hawkers that contribute A LOT of quality information without these problems.

I'm glad to see that MyButt had the bobbers(not you Bobber) to appologised for his comments. (That's very big of you!) But I in some cases the damage is done. My wife is native, we share a computer so she sees much of what goes on here on fish-hawk, I will have some explaining about what I'm doing frequenting this website from now on. She was quick to notice that MyButt is an authorised partner.

I do not want to jeopardise anyones freedom of speach, but please take responsibility for information posted, as discussed in many forums, impressionable young minds are listening.

[taylor]

Salmon are a put and take fishery. They do have a small % that do successfully spawn, but that's beside the point. The fish are put there for anglers to harvest. Milking a salmon for it's eggs is also completely legal to do.

Once again we have a thread on FH were self proclaimed know it alls start spewing false facts trying to prove the next guy wrong.

Ridiculous.

[FromTheNorth]

Taylor,
I should have know I would offend someone with that comment. I was not attacking salmon fishermen, I'm one of them. I also admitted to taking eggs myself. If you'll re read my post, I admitted that I was not sure about that "Fact" that you have just stapled to my forehead. I didn't know that by asking a question, I was stating a fact. (especially when it says right beside "I DON'T REALLY KNOW"
All in all, I was making a point. I never tried to pass my information in this area as FACT. You did.

But, I must remind you that not milking pickerel is also perfectly legal to do.

I would also like to ask you about a "put and take"fishery. Once again, and I must state....

THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IS NOT FACT:

If none of the salmon succesfully spawn, how do the fry know what rivers to return to to spawn? All the rivers around my home town have an anual run, not all of the rivers are stocked. You wouldn't be a "self proclaimed know it all spewing false facts trying to prove the next guy wrong" would you?

[almontefisher]

How can you guys make a post with Chief ItchyBum in it without laughing..no offense Chief..love the name. Maybe you could clear something up for me to Chief...I made a coment about Algonquin park and some of this is a one sided conversation while hunting with some " REDNECK " friends...They said that you are to hunt as you did when this land was all yours but they also said that some natives are using 4x4's to wrangle up the herds and slaughter more than they require...Now please dont see me as an idoit for asking but as someone trying to educate themselves on BOTH sides of the story...I fully respect your rights to the land and resourses and encourage the respect and understanding of them that you try to enstill in people but what do you as natives do when you see this abuse happening...

Chief Itchybum...lol...so good.

[Kpin]

Almonte...try as I may, I can't keep a straight face whenever I see the nick Chief Itchybum. He must be cousins with the medicine man, OneWhoWipesWithPoisonIvy.

Ahem...ok seriously...What the hell is going on here?! Why is everyone so friggin' on edge?

Sure it's a controversial subject. Aren't all the greatest learning experiences the tough ones? I still see a great opportunity to learn from this thread, clear possible misconceptions and be decent with each other at the same time.

It'd be nice to see that happen b4 Bobber calls a timeout, sends us to our rooms and locks her up fellas.

Man, it's scary to even myself when I find I'm the voice of reason.

[MyButt]

To fellow Fish Hawk Members.

I made it quite clear my approach for this topic was pointed in the wrong direction, and for that I did apologize. As Kpin mentioned above. I too do believe much good could come from a topic like this, and ask for opinions from other members and guests.

Topic’s of us anglers and hunters alike. How we could all better understand our laws, our heritages. We can only learn from each others mistakes in life. After all isn’t that what life is about, but to learn.

Good point Kpin

[Duck Gunner]

Guys/Gals...

Don't waste your time calling the local MNR COs on Native issues. Anything that involves a native person being charged, it has to go through MNR Headquarters in Peterborough for pre-approval before it can be laid.

As far as the Algonquin hunt for moose goes, I think there is more debate about who is actually a native and who isn't. I have seen some pretty white faces trying to claim full rights because one of their great grandparents' mother or father was born of one white/one native parentage. So what's that 1/64th native blood???

Regardless people, it doesn't make a difference who is doing it white/red/yellow/black/brown/striped/polka dotted, it's wrong. It's just a shame that there isn't equal justice out there.

Chief Itchybum, I agree that not all natives are poachers. Some are real big sportsmen. Once again, it's the bad apples and stereotypers that are the real problem. Perhaps if the native communities/bands would step up and take action to correct those individuals who are a problem, it would ease the tensions a little. A little bit of self-policing as it were... The MNR and the Government aren't going to do it because it just spun into the Government is quashing the "rights" of all natives.

Interesting choice of name by the way...


DG.

[getnjiggywithit]

Wow talk about a touchy subject Hear is a couple of pics I took a couple of years ago. The power plant in the background is kincarden and the 2 boats are native comercial fishing boats that have the entire outflow suroundedhttp://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q155 ... G_0837.jpg
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q155 ... G_0836.jpg
earlier that day we fished owen sound and found the mouth of the sound completly netted off with native nets so we left and went to kincarden to find the outflow netted off as well Comercial fishermen are required by law to be atleast 3kms off shore Also when those pics were taken the talk of the town was how ALL NON NATIVE comercial licences had been cancelled

[chief itchybum]

what do natives do when we see our own people taking more than what they need? well in some cases they are punished...i know of some reserves when a individual or a group/family is abusing our resourses they are punished by moving them on a crappy part of the reserve, or in extreme cases of punishment...their houses are burnt down, they get beat up, they lose there rights as a individual on the reserve.

but you know what folks...in this day of age...i really don't care who you are...if your a poacher....if your one to over harvest meaning more than what you need and your family and your going to waste...your on my crap list and i will report you....simple as that...we all should report crimes.
with that said...being native i have my rights and so respect them...it's the way i was brought up...to share my catch and to pass on my knowledge and i do so very well, i get just as upset as the next person when our natural resources being abuse...we're all angler's and hunter's and if we work together wouldn't things just be peachy?
if anyone really wants to do something important on abuse to our fisheries...holy crap...stop the commercial fishing in our great lakes!!!!
again..take a kid fishing and teach them well.
personally...i'm taking my son spear fishing tomorrow morning for pike...love those cold water snot rockets.
later and be well
chief itchybum

[Bobber]

Folks,

I'd like to caution you about negative comments against another culture on such a subject as this. I think MyButt has realized that perhaps he crossed the line, with or without intent and has apologized for it. It takes a big person to realize when frustration and anger has gotten in the way of objectivity. Thanks MyButt.

Now I think the original intent of this post was to solicit some advice and assistance in having these actions dealt with appropriatly. There doesn't seem to be much action from our local government, so perhaps we can all put our heads together and figure out if this is something we'd like to pursue in another manner....without assumption, potential or perceived discrimination, and kept on topic.

Thanks all for resolving in a mature manner. These are edgy topics and go the wrong way very fast. This one may have started in that bad direction, but you guys pulled it out nicely. Thanks.