How would you feel

[plncrzy]

Who..in their right mind ever allowed this kind of NONSENSE to take place .

This kind of activity should only be allowed over an Ocean somewhwere far away from land ...

A room full of 6 month old Babies crying and screaming is a lot less annoying than .those losers who take to the sky and perform that maneuver ..over and over and over and over again...... :roll

Get a Life already...

Someone told me that they need to do that to get their pilots license. No idea if it is true... kinda made sense to me.

But, yes. It is annoying. But... I also lived in Point Clair in Montreal right under a flight path to the runway less than 2kms away. This is Mozart in comparison.

Craig

Craig

I have my pilots license and yes you do need to be able to perform many maneuvers with precision to be able to get your license.

When i was practicing such maneuvers, we had "designated" practice areas where there wasn't ANY livestock. Usually, instructors are very good about that sort of thing and ensure that they don't scare any livestock... however, there is NOTHING stopping some idiot from doing this just for kicks.

My suggestion, Copy down the identifier of the plane doing this ... should start with a C- _ _ _ _.. and report it to http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/doc.php?sid=1061&lang=eng


Also mark down the date and exact time.

You may also want to call the company that is renting these airplanes or you can find out the owners name address phone number by searching the identifier here... http://wwwapps2.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/2/ ... n/menu.asp

Sorry for the HIJACK

[smokercraft]

my apologies Jimmy, those people should be ashamed of themselves in that case... I do believe that they still could be disqualified though if I read the rules correctly. Still, if it was that bad then they definitely should have helped for sure. I have never witnessed anything like that happen since I started fishing. There are always a few in every crowd though. I actually had a run-in with another bassin for bucks boat that same day... Biggest A**hole I have ever seen in my life. Don't think he fishes around here in tournaments much anymore but he used to be a big-time Renegade guy.

[Prairieboy]

When I broke down 2 years ago during a local derby...I was in plain sight of 3 bass boats with one 200 yrds away.

Would they Help? Not a chance!

Maybe, because you were wearing your "Everybody Loves Jimmy T-Shirt"

[Trophymuskie]

I have no idea what all the bass tournaments that fish the lower Ottawa but it seams like there is at least one every weekend. Some private ones like the Lefaivre one that used to be on the opener where so many were prefishing before the season even opened. Some Bass associations from Ontario and Quebec and even the national bass association comes this way every year.

I actually feel sorry for the local bass anglers, when there is these big tourneys all the time how is someone supossed to go out relax and catch a few fish? Even if you can go out during the week aren't the fish shy after been targeted all weekend?

I'm sure all that pressure has to be doing something negative to the fishery and to see all the floating weeds makes you wonder what effect can that have on a water body.

I move around a lot and really don't see the tourneys affecting my fishing much except for the od moron that thinks they own the water or too dumb to realize your fishing a shoreline even if we are 100 feet away. Normally I just laugh at the train of boats going up and down the river all day long. I actually fish away from the city on weekends to avoid the extra pressure, then come back Mondays to pic off the fish that were missed.

When I get buzzed or any other illegal actions I always take their number and contact the organisers to report their actions, it may not do squat but maybe after a couple of complaints againts a certain guy or team it may actually get things done.

And it doesn't mater if it's 80 boats or 20 when money is involved there will always be some folks only there for the money and they will do just about anything to get it.

We are so lucky to have some of the best fisheries around these parts I would hate for our generation to ruin it for our kids.

[zum]

I thought it was a law to help someone in distress?
Maybe it's not the same in all provinces.

There are already laws on how fast you can go as well as littering and damaging people's property.
People that disregard them are going to do so weither they are in a fishing tournament or not.Theres doorknobs in life,just the way it is.

I say no to more taxes/fees...makes more sense to govern where our taxes actually go...
Maybe at a pre-fishing meeting make sure the organizers preach the values of respect and what we could gain from it.

[glenn]

Hi all, as the President of Renegade Bass this is a topic that has been bashed around our executive meetings for 15 years.

We, over time have built good solid relationships with the various Cottage Associations and the MNR in our region. It took time, patience and certainly understanding on both sides to accomplish this.

Renegade has spent thousands of dollars in its 15 year history to ensure that the fish are the number one priority every where we go. The live release boat has $7000.00 in oxygenators, the pumps that bring water in and recirculates far exceed what is actually needed. The Shimano Live weigh-in system (that keeps the fish in water when weighed) is a $12000.00 necessity (that we believe in 100 %). A 5 member paid shore crew to inforce our rules and regulations and properly run a weigh-in with the least amount of headaches for the fish, the anglers, Renegade Bass and the many people who live, play and fish these waters.

The money we spend each and every year for insurance covering our Black trailer, live release boat and trailer, the contents we have accumulated over time and most importantly the liability insurance totals over $4500.00 a year.

Now, I am not blowing Renegade's horn here, I am just trying to give you all background as to the costs of running a very successful tournament series.

Any tournament/derby who does not carry insurance (libility) makes all of the participants liable for anything that may happen during the said event. If someone dies, someone sues, somebody or a bunch of somebodies will end up paying that lawsuit.

Throwing fish off docks regardless the amount of teams fishing is not good for the survival of the bass. Holding bass in a weigh-in bag for ten minutes or more in very hot weather is certainly not in the interest of surviving bass. Smallmouth bass caught in deep water and not fizzed (if need be) is not in the best interests of the Bass. Dead fish floating around release areas days after the event is not in the best interests of Tournament organizations.
Anglers not knowing how to take care of fish in their livewells is a big problem organizations face.

All of these things are what people see and most often critcize about tournaments/derbies. Anglers are the key to any sucessful event. We cannot babysit each and every boat participating in each event nor can we control the cottagers urges, wants or demands. We put in place rules to regulate the events and each year we have to review those regulations and possibly change them to reflect suituations that occured the past year. We all hope that cooler heads will prevail on event days and nothing more will happen. But it does happen.

Is there too many tournament/derbies in Ontario and Quebec? I would say yes. Can it be stopped no, unless the Government steps in to licence them or restrict the # of tournaments on certain bodies of water. But as RJ said how could you stop a bunch of guys getting together on Lake X throwing $20.00 in a hat and go fishing for the day. You can't stop it. But is it in the best interests of the fish. Do people organizing these events care about all of this? I would say not enough do.

Having said this the results in Renegade over time has proven that each year the weights and # of fish caught have increased, proving that C&R works.

Do tournaments bring money to the towns holding the event, it sure does and lots of it. Renegade anglers spend money as RJ said pre-fishing, fuel, accomdations and food.

I have rambled here and probably got off topic. I thank you all for the time. Glenn Merkley President of Renegade Bass

[Jimmy_1]

Thank you for that perspective Glen,

That's exactly the kind of reply and opinion I wanted to see.
Yes, they do bring $$$ to small towns, yes C&R works, Yes the majority of people fishing them are stellar etc.

But you hit the point I was trying to make. Its an issue being brought up.

I assume then you are AGAINST fee's or approvals required to fish tournaments on water bodies?

My opinion is that there should be no fee's. But that all tournaments and derby's be subject to registration with a conservation authority.

Why?

1) So that "heavy" pressure on a fishery can be gauged and for what species.

2) Landowners can then be aware of the w/e's there will be increased boating traffic, noise etc. This allows them to know WHICH w/e's are best for certain activities etc.

I think derbies and tournaments for the most part are great! A lot of fun, and friendly competition breeds comraderie.

I'll most likely never fish a series such as Renegade and think those that can are very lucky...(I lack the skill set(s) and the time)

But I do like hitting the smaller ones and have a great time.

[Matt Massey]

In the province of Ontario we are fortunate to have laws on the books that protect the rights of anglers and hunters. It's called the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act. Specifically the law reads:

Section 13.(1) dictates:

Obstruction of hunting, trapping or fishing
13. (1) A person shall not interfere with lawful hunting, trapping or fishing by,
(a) tampering with traps, nets, bait, firearms or any other thing used for hunting, trapping or fishing;
(b) placing himself or herself in a position, for the purpose of interfering, that hinders or prevents hunting, trapping or fishing; or
(c) engaging in an activity, for the purpose of interfering, that disturbs or is likely to disturb wildlife or fish.

In my opinion and as detailed in the law this has a couple of outcomes:

1. The MVCA by trying to impose regulations that govern if when or how a tournament can be run on a body of water would be in direct violation of this law. Additionally, in order to get this type of power to administrate tournament activity there would have to be legislation brought forward (which would take years) and only then could the MNR have the power to administrate tournaments. Virtually a guarantee that this will never happen in our lifetimes.

2. As an angler and a guy who fishes tournaments, I get incensed when a cottager feels they have the right to walk up to a person who is legally fishing in public waters and believes they have the right to ask the angler not to fish there, engage in an argument with the angler etc. Furthermore the act of the landowner attempting to hinder your fishing activity (whether or not you are fishing their dock or shoreline) is also breaking the law.

This I see as no different than someone yelling at you as you pass by their house (...say you're playing "kick the can" which we all did when we were kids) telling you to walk on the other sidewalk because you're disturbing their "relaxation time". In reality, this is someone who believes that they have the right to impose their will or ideals on others regardless of the fact that you are engaged in a perfectly legal activity.


Now, I'm aware that the Mississippi Lake Association is highly opposed to tournament fishing of pretty much any type. They have been vocal and it is more than likely that they are the ones making the most noise the MVCA about tournament fishing on Mississippi. As someone who grew up on the Rideau River, I KNOW boat traffic and trust me, Other than the Ottawa and Rideau systems, there isn't a lake around here that sees anything close to that level of activity during the summer, fishing or boating etc.

Here's a unique thought, go on the offensive, print off copies of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act and hand it to a cottager the next time they ask you to move on...

[ganman]

Here's a "locals" take.

It starts with pre-fishing. One day I show up at normally sleepy ramp and there's a bunch of BB trailers and pickups in the lot. Oh oh tournament coming stay away from that lake for awhile. So I drive over to Lake B and fish it. Then one day the lot at Lake B is full. Stay away from Lake B....you get the pattern here? The impact of a tournament is not just the weekend or day it is held. It starts before and lasts long after. Since this is where I fish and have for 50 years I can tell you there is a noticable effect in the fishery.

I have shown up twice now, at Seeley's Bay and the Outlet at Charleston, both public ramps and couldn't even get in the lake because the tournament had commandeered the whole parking area, dockage and ramp.

Should I, a local guy who just wants to spend a few hours on a local lake (northeast of Kingston specifically) be inconvenienced by clubs/groups that descend like thieves in the night from Ottawa, Kingston, NY State and Pennsylvannia? Frankly I don't want to drive all over the countryside avoiding them. I own a bassboat and enjoy fishing out of it for the comfort but I am seriously thinking about trading it for something smaller so I can fish places they can't.

I have to laugh when bass clubs cite the economic benefits of tournaments and fishing. Lets compare conflicting interests. Say each boat drops $200 in the local economy and thats being generous as boats, gas, tackle, repairs come from outside my area anyways otherwise we'd have a Baitcasters. Fifty boats x $200 = $10,000 into the local community. One hundred cottages/year round homes x $3,000 in taxes (for nothing in services) = $300,000....and that figure is low. Then factor in how many groceries and services these people purchase in local villages and its not hard to figure why someone wants to put a surcharge on tournaments.

[Jimmy_1]

Just out of curiosity from an earlier point though.

The dock? Is that not the property of the landowner?
If so, if you were to cast and hit his dock...could he not claim trespassing, vandalism etc?

Anytime someone has told ME to leave their dock, I do so. Plenty of other docks.....that hold fish.

[smokercraft]

Relations between cottagers and boaters range from benign to venal, depending on the area. To begin, boaters (and cottagers) need to understand that cottagers do not own the navigable water in front of their properties. And even if they own or lease the bed, navigation is protected as a federal right under the Canada Shipping Act. (An exception is Tadenac Bay on eastern Georgian Bay, which the Tadenac Club, founded in 1884, has legally sealed off from federal nav rights.) Anglers can troll right along the shore and up and down cottage docks, and cruisers are entitled to anchor out front, provided they do not fix the craft in any way to shore, or go ashore themselves. Provincial policy does extend to cottagers the right to build docks and install moorings for boats in navigable waters, so long as those structures do not interfere with navigation. Boaters similarly cannot anchor where they obstruct navigation.


Some anchorages are notorious for friction between cottagers and cruisers. We often hear about (and have witnessed ourselves) acts of intimidation by cottage owners. This usually takes the form of buzzing an anchored boat while supposedly innocently going to or from their dock, either showering the boat with spray or rocking it with their wake. If the harassment is blatant and potentially dangerous, a cruiser should document the incident as best they can and contact the police. We know of one case where a cottager was convicted of threatening a cruiser with a machete. While we have some sympathy for cottagers on busy anchorages who have to put up with the loud antics of the occasional boating buffoon (which other boaters also hate), the anchoring rights enshrined under the Canada Shipping Act were there before their cottages were.

[Jimmy_1]

You learn sooo much from an intelligent debate and when you hear all sides.

Its nice to see 1 post not go south on a topic with varied opinion.

Threat with a machete??Seriously?
That's crazy!

[Out4trout]

The dock? Is that not the property of the landowner?
If so, if you were to cast and hit his dock...could he not claim trespassing, vandalism etc?

If the dock is above land, then the landowner owns it. However, if it protrudes above water, then the dock is located on Crown land. The landowner likely paid for the dock, but does not own the the water or the lakebottom under the dock, So, one could pull up and sit right on the dock and not be trespassing technically.

However, that would be a bad idea... Respect the cottagers and most will respect our fishing rights.

The odd machete wielding nutbar can be dealt with seperately - doesn't reflect the majority of cottage owners that I have met.

[Jimmy_1]

Seriously though....a machete!

I believe it just WOW....all I can say.

Why on earth you'd ever want to risk going to prison for threatening someone...and especially with a weapon is beyond me....

Some people....CRAZY!

Lithium and Zoloft should be handed out at Halloween for some of these folks if thats the case!

[Out4trout]

Back to the topic... certainly there are some lakes that really get hammered during tournaments.

I believe tournaments can be detrimental to the fishery, but so can boat traffic, exhaust, wheel bearing grease from the trailer etc etc. What's more, the non-degradable rubber baits (whacky worms etc) litter the lake bottom and fish cannot digest them.

In my opinion, live release bass tournaments are less detrimental than the people who fish 3x per week and bring home their limit each time out. And yes, that still happens.

I believe that Lake Trout tournaments are much more detrimental to the fishery than Bass tournaments. I have witnessed too many times scores of people hauling in 4-8lb trout hoping to win the big prize... then a 13lb wins and all the other trout are dead. Couple the Laker's slow growth, 6 year spawning age, and the 100% mortality during tournaments... I'd like to see Bass tournaments continue and Lake Trout tournaments be phased out unless the trout are weighed and verified at time of catch then released.

To your question - Cottage owners will never get a single $ from my pocket.

If any money is passing hands, Cottage owners should perhaps pay a $$ tax levy which would be used for shoreline rehabilitation to offset damage caused by shoreline vegetation loss on cottage properties.