Legal ?

[SeaMonster]

At first I thought this can't be legal..... then I started to wonder....
Not that I'd really want to use this.. but as far as I could see in the regs (here in QC anyway) it didn't seem to violate anything in any glaringly obvious way. It's basically just a springloaded hook... nothing finesse about it though.
Some Finnish dooods from work had used this back home...
I think you pry it open, put your bait, then it snaps closed when triggered like in the bottom picture.

http://translate.google.ca/translate?js ... kku%2B2kpl

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[cprince]

They are not legal in some states... Minnesota comes to mind. I have read about these over the past few years, and found them interesting.

They are called; Slammers... (That might also be a brand name..)

...The antiquated law states that you can't use a "spring device" which impales the hook. The state of Minnesota's "directors" consider the fishing pole held under tension to be a spring device.

You CAN use a Slammer Tip-Up in Minnesota IF you either leave your reel in "free-spool" mode or open your bail on a spinning reel so there is no hook-set when the release is tripped...

If there are any laws about spring loaded devices in QC or ON... chances are you are not allowed to use this product.

Craig

**After looking again... not the same thing I thought you were talking about!! Looks like a caveman's slammer!!**

[cprince]

This is what I thought you were talking about;





These are homemade...

Craig

[SeaMonster]

The closest thing that describes it, is basically fishing with a mousetrap.

You leave it dangle on the branches you see in the video, and your fishing line is attached to the trigger. Any tension on the line triggers the spring to close.

I checked the ontario regs, and they refer to this:

A fishing line must not have more than four hooks attached. A hook includes a single-pointed or multiple-pointed hook on a common shaft but does not include a snagger or spring gaff. The number of hooks includes any single-pointed or multiple-pointed hooks that are part of a lure.

Wonder if it's considered a "snagger". Looked around, couldn't get any definition of what that was.

QC made no mention. Geez I know some meat fishermen who'd like these....

[Moosebunk]

Just need to spool some PowerPro onto a winch, rig the line to trigger the on/off switch, buy up some Slammers and such and the fishing will take care of itself.

I couldn't tell what I was looking at in the vid really. I don't understand the mechanics of that spring thingy on the line.


Setting a hook is an integral part of actually catching a fish. Start making things to do it for you and it might as well be called snaggin'.

[Out4trout]

Slammers are regarded as a "Spring Loaded" hook-setting device and are illegal in Ontario.

Excerpted from the regs...

"It is illegal to: Possess a spring gaff, snagger or spear gunwithin
30m(98 ft.) of any waters.
A spring gaff includes any spring loaded device which sets the
hook for an angler.
No person shall take fish with a gaff, snare, snagger or spear gun.
A gaff, other than a spring gaff, may be used to assist in landing
fish caught by lawful means."

End excerpt

[bucketmouth]

a spring gaff looks like this.



It's my understanding Slammer type rod setups are illegal now as per MNR regs but the very definition posted above is a bit vague. Technically speaking a spring-loaded device should have a spring, no? A Slammer rig puts a downward load on an ice rod with a trigger to have a "spring like" effect. An actual spring gaff is completely different and uses springs to snap shut. I built a Slammer rig in the past and it's deadly on light biting walleye. MNR should add pictures to the regs to make it 100% clear...

signed,
someone who no longer uses a Slammer setup [/b]

[cprince]

... Technically speaking a spring-loaded device should have a spring, no? A Slammer rig puts a downward load on an ice rod with a trigger to have a "spring like" effect. ...

Nope.

1. An elastic device, such as a coil of wire, that regains its original shape after being compressed or extended.
2. An actuating force or factor; a motive.
3.
a. Elasticity; resilience.
b. Energetic bounce: a spring to one's step.
4. The act or an instance of jumping or leaping.
5. A usually rapid return to normal shape after removal of stress; recoil.
...*snipped impertinent seasonal definition*

9. A warping, bending, or cracking, as that caused by excessive force.
10. Architecture The point at which an arch or vault rises from its support.

-------------

So you see... a spring does not have to be the coiled piece of metal we first think of...

The rod under load is clearly a spring.

Craig

[bucketmouth]

Thanks for clearing that up Man'N'Orange

I still wonder what is worse for a fish though:

1) a slammer rig which is going to put a wee bit more force into the hookset than an average angler would...

or

2) the average joe mis-setting his tipdown/jacktrap and guthooking a fish thus preventing a safe release. We've all seen that happen to guys fishing live bait for fish they intend to release.

[Eli]

I use the automatic ice fisherman every winter and love it. Hooks pike in the corner of the mouth every time, so no more swallowed hooks and dead pike. Also much more fun than hand-lining fish on a conventional tip-up.

Far as legality, I asked a CO about this and he said that unless it's an actual spring setting the hook, it's not illegal. So the thing in the video which (from what I can tell) uses a spring would be illegal. Downriggers arn't and neither are 'slammers'.

[cprince]

I use the automatic ice fisherman every winter and love it. Hooks pike in the corner of the mouth every time, so no more swallowed hooks and dead pike. Also much more fun than hand-lining fish on a conventional tip-up.

Far as legality, I asked a CO about this and he said that unless it's an actual spring setting the hook, it's not illegal. So the thing in the video which (from what I can tell) uses a spring would be illegal. Downriggers arn't and neither are 'slammers'.

I would be willing to bet, to the letter of the law, it is illegal.

It doesn't take a BA of criminology and a MA in common law to interpret that slammers, as far as the letter of the law (As stated above) are against the law.

There are so many conservation laws that are enforced to varying degrees depending on the area and demeanor of the CO.

Now maybe finding a CO who would enforce that law might be hard... but get one having a bad day... or just doesn't like your face... or orange shirt... and you might get hosed. Finding the ONE CO who said you could might be hard to do when you are facing a court date.

Ask 10 COs on a Monday morning... then ask the same 10 COs on a Friday afternoon. I would bet the answers would be different.

I have little experience with downriggers... but the ones I have used... have absolutely no spring action to set the hook.

Just how I see it... so take it for what it is worth! (Possible nothing!)

Craig

[Out4trout]

Reality is that the law is ambiguous, leaving charges open
to each CO's interpretation / discretion of whether a bent rod
qualifies as a spring. If you happen to get a CO in a bad mood,
you're charged, at which point your option is to plead not guilty
then argue your interpretation of the law in front of a Judge, and
possibly get your gear back (1 year after the charge) if he agrees
with you.

Here's the Federal Fishery Act... Ontario section
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/SOR-2007-237/page-1.html
" “spring gaff” means a spring-operated device for impaling
or hooking a fish and includes spring-loaded hooks that are
triggered when a fish bites the bait. (gaffe à ressort) "

I'll stick to setting my hook manually ... it's more fun anyway

Far as legality, I asked a CO about this and he said that unless it's an actual spring setting the hook, it's not illegal. So the thing in the video which (from what I can tell) uses a spring would be illegal. Downriggers arn't and neither are 'slammers'.

[fishhit]

I believe that the intent of the rule, or as it is often refered to, "the spirit of the law", aside from definitive interpretations,is that the angler himself be involved in the setting of the hook.
Any attempt to fish without direct involment of the individual acting directly on the line to 'set' the hook is considered to be commercial fishing.
Spring gaffs, spring hooks, trot lines, set lines, jug lines, nets and any un-manned system or un-observed system is prohibited within the spirit of the regulation.
At the fishes end of the spectrum, in order for the spirit of the regulation to be met, the fish must willingly take the bait, lure or hook , and not be snagged, impaled or netted in order to qualify as a sportfish caught by a sportfisherman.
If you want to 'harvest' fish get a commercial license and take yourself out of the equation and give up sportfishing!

FISHHIT

[SeaMonster]

Unfortunately the "spirit" or "intent" of the law means very little.
Laws prohibiting the use of live bait, written in order to prevent invasive species still apply to guys who catch their bait in the lake they fish. The fine costs the same.

Nonetheless, I find this discussion very interesting. I had no idea these contraptions existed.

For sure I'd rather set my own hook.

[fishhit]

Unfortunately the "spirit" or "intent" of the law means very little.
Laws prohibiting the use of live bait, written in order to prevent invasive species still apply to guys who catch their bait in the lake they fish. The fine costs the same.

Nonetheless, I find this discussion very interesting. I had no idea these contraptions existed.

For sure I'd rather set my own hook.

The 'spirit, or 'intent' of the rule is actually paramount when rendering legal opinion and while regulation tends to use definitive language to determine a ruling, when challanged in court ,opinion is based primarily on intent or spirit of the regulation.

For shure setting the hook is what it's all about! Thats whats makes us sportfishermen! That's the spirit! Who wants to gaff fish? No sport in that.

Fishhit