Proposed Changes to NY Bass Regs

[grumpy7790]

While fishing and hunting are a hobby to us, make no mistake about it, this is a complete economic industry to a state or province. Just think of the charters on the great lakes and the amout of money and jobs created just through fishing

Here in PA this is basically the same rules. I'm not sure about taking fish off the beds, but I know if it is a law it is never enforced.

As for taking fish off of beds, well I can tell you that the window is very short and is at different time periods even on the same lake. The fish get smart, and are not as easy as you think to catch. A lot of the beds are also in 6-10 feet of water and not that easy to identify. Also lets not forget these same fish will eat their own 5-6 months later!

In my opinion I think Ontario is over sensitive in regards to their bass season. I really do not understand the early fall close of bass in some divisions??? Just limit the harvest, why have an eight month closed season?

I know a lot of people in PA and NY that no longer head to Canada in May and June for Pike and Walleye because they are tired of being harassed by cottagers and CO's. I guarentee you NY is getting these anglers because PA is limited in regards lakes.

Now this will be a real boom to NY's economy. From hotel, motels, restaurants to bait stores should see an increase in business. Fishing makes up a multi-billion dollar industry here in the US. Do I think BPS and the industry lobby for these new rules? Of course they do!

Another example, PA was trying to attracted new hunters to the state by implementing new regs that would produce trophy buck down the road. The new reg required that basically the doe herd needed to be slaughtered since the doe/buck ratio was estimate as high as 6:1. Trophy buck are produced when the ratio is closer to 2:1. Well, we in PA hate change and love seeing doe run around while buck hunting so the Game commiss left. My point is that hunting and fishing is a critical state/province economic industry that must be used to its maximum potential. I applaud NY's boldness to test this new frontier and stimulate their economy.

Grumpy

[ganman]

Yea....we hear lot about the wonderful economic benefits of the sportfishing economy.

It's all BUNK.....(sorry Moose) I've seen alot of guys go broke just trying to eke out a living in the sportfishing and or tourism business. Tackle shop owners, resort owners, marine operators you name it. People who jumped on the bandwagon only to get a rude awakening.

I know I'll get some heat over this but as someone who knows let me say this.......tourism $$$ from fishermen are waaay overrated and frankly I think we are giving away the store for peanuts.

Really how much do anglers spend? Little fishing gear is bought locally....most is bought far away at a BPS or Cabelas. The boat wasn't. Most stay in $400 a week shacks. Some gas and groceries. There's not many guides in this area anymore.

Yes a few make a living, the guy who owns the cottage resort. A few more make enough to draw pogey in the winter and some students make a summer wage.

I heard across the river that we lost business to Black Lake NY. Dosen't bother me any and if they were profiting so much by it....its hard to tell. The countryside is strewn with dumpy trailers.

A poker run in one weekend probably generates 10x what anglers spend here over a whole season!

So what is 2 more months of bass season going to do? Nothing, thats what. I got a taste of those future dollars out on Dog Lake last summer. A 100 tournament anglers from elsewhere who bought nothing here, who came, fished and went home. Do we need this........no thank you.

I'm hope the MNR is looking out for me.....the local who stuck it out and has a real job, not a seasonal Mcjob and someone who contributes real tax $$$ to the local economy.

I bought my boat here, all my tackle, I eat out 3x a week or more in local restaurants. Alot of my vacations are spent right here at home.

[Cancatchbass]

As much as most people won't want to believe ganman's statements on the financial benefit (or lack thereof) of visiting anglers to our area, he has hit the nail pretty well on the head. Aside from a few lodge owners, the odd independent tackle shop that has somehow managed to stay in business (more power to them!) and a handful of full-time guides, few of us local yokels are benefitting to any degree from recreational angling.

To take it a step further, now- I have read elsewhere on many occasions of the great benefits that tournaments have on the economies of the villages or areas that host them. Unfortunately, when we're dealing with one-day tournaments (as is the case with 90% of the tournaments in eastern Ontario), the financial benefits are almost nil. Most anglers arrive the morning of the tournament with gas tanks full, lunches in a storage compartment, and head for home immediately after weigh-in. If it's a pay launch, the municipality or marina might pick up, on average, a couple of hundred dollars. Whoopee!

Getting back to the original thread discussion: Why does the N. Y. state proposal cause concern for Ontarians? We have nothing to lose and everything to gain. If the proposed changes prove not to harm the fisheries south of the border, we can learn from their experiment, and maybe implement changes here. I would LOVE a longer bass season.

If the fisheries suffer, we obviously won't follow suit.

CCB

[ganman]

Gee......everything to gain and nothing to lose

Why didn't I think of that.

[Cancatchbass]

ganman- you makin' funna me?

Better they do the experimenting south of the border than up here, no?

CCB

[SkeeterJohn]

If the study shows that there are no negative effects of a longer season then as anglers in Ontario we potentially may gain from a longer season. If the study shows that there are negative effects then the Ontario mnr will probably receive no pressure to re-examine their own season dates.

So yes we do potentially have everything to gain and nothing to lose but of course that does depend on the out come of the ny findings and then whether or not the Ontario mnr acts on these.

[grumpy7790]

I guess maybe we are getting off the topic a bit but I think NY's decission is more than just about the Bass being able to handle the fishing pressure.

My wallet tells me a different story than Ganman or CCB are pointing out. Yes, I don't travel 350 miles to buy lures in some poorly stocked, over priced tackle trap. Kudo's to those top shops like the ones represented on this board. Ask them if they would like to see an extended season!

I suggest try tying up your boat and head out of town for a week or two without your wallet and see how far yea get. Throw in the family the expenditures quadruple! Lots of restaurants, grocery stores, watering holes, amusement parks, gas stations, specialty shops, and so on get some of my hard earned cash. Why? Because I'm in the area fishing. I do agree about the one day tournaments, but wow did anyone see the freaking fan turnout at Clark Hill?

I would also agree to think twice about opening a business that just services fishermen. The trend is the average fisherman is getting older every year. Take a kid fishing! Any kid! Not to mention the BPS and Cabelas of the world.

Good topic.

Just my thoughts,
G

[ganman]

As far as I concerned the jury is till out on this. Let the NYDEC put economics ahead of the resource.

They have a history of this. I think it was lost license revenue and Michigan Crickett sales in Pulaski tackle shops that had them condoning the barbaric sport of salmon snagging.

Even if they open the season in NY state which I seriously doubt they will it will have no impact on us economically. Where are the people who don't come here gonna do all this bass fishing in NY?

They'll come for the reasons they always do. Because its clean, its quiet, its quaint and beautiful with no crowds........yet.

[grumpy7790]

Ganman, NY can probably boast that they have some of the best fishing waters of anywhere in North America. Two Great Lakes, great river systems, and the Finger Lakes area to boot.

Here's a few bassin areas with the bold as majors:
Cayuga lake
Owasco Lake
Skaneateles Lake
Otisco Lake
Conesus Lake
Hemlock Lake
Canadice Lake
Honeoye Lake
Canandaigua Lake
Keuka Lake
Seneca Lake
Butterfield Lake
Redfield Res.
Lake Abanakee
Hudson River
Delaware River
Mohawk River
Lake Champlain
Oneida Lake
Lake Ontario
Lake Erie
St. Lawrence River
Niagara River
Black Lake
Lake George
Susquehanna River
Peconic River
Black River

[ganman]

Could you add Sacandaga and Saranac? Don't forget Chautauqua.

Grumpy I've bought a NY license for 20+yrs. I know whats there as well as you do. I also know there are what 18 million+ in NY?

I don't want to get into a game of tit for tat but as impressive as the list looks its nothing even remotely compared to what is on this side. In quantity, quality and the other things we go fishing for, namely peace, solitude, scenery etc.

Anyway you miss my point.

As I said. People come here for alot more than the fishing. If NY has a two month longer season good for them. It won't matter to anyone here other than possibly a few tourist operators and trust me nobody will give a damn but them. If it has no ill effects than maybe we should look into it someday.

If NY is wrong and are motivated solely on economics the effects of this could..... could be disasterous.

I'll go with research done up the road on Opinicon lake and the Rideau by Queens University before something done elsewhere.

[wolfe]

I suggest try tying up your boat and head out of town for a week or two without your wallet and see how far yea get. Throw in the family the expenditures quadruple! Lots of restaurants, grocery stores, watering holes, amusement parks, gas stations, specialty shops, and so on get some of my hard earned cash. Why? Because I'm in the area fishing. I do agree about the one day tournaments, but wow did anyone see the freaking fan turnout at Clark Hill?

True, Grumpy, true. You know, when I started to think about how much $$ we spend when we head over the border 7 or 8 times a year, I kept getting higher and higher dollar figures as I remembered more and more expenditures. I talked to Brian about it, and just a quick "guesstimate" got us to $4K+. This is a conservative number, by the way. Expenses encompass much of what Grumpy has mentioned above. Just thought I should represent one family's contribution to the economy!

As for the extended bass season in NYS: based on a purely ethical point of view, and these being my personal ethics, I would give it a thumbs down. I won't attempt to quote statistics to you, because I'd be blowing mostly hot air. I don't like pretending to know something I don't. So this is an "uneducated" point of view, perhaps, but one from the gut; and I value my instincts. I think Seaweed has a very good point. Money talks -- and trust me, the DEC listens. The bass "deserve" a stress-free spawning season, at least where human predation is concerned.

My opinion, my views. No need for hate mail, please.

W.

PS: There are some wonderful bass fisheries in NYS. I just happen to prefer Ontario!

[Snidley]

Just a point of interest there is a couple of regions in north east Ontario (sections 19 and 25) that have a year round open season for bass(probably 90% Smallmouth up there.) As for me i think Bass regs like regs for other highly desireable species should be specific to the waterbody involved (as they do in BC). The main thrust should be catch and release as well a artrificials only. Just a quick perusal of Floatfishing.net will show how many fish are being taken right now for roe. Steelheaders, of which i consider myself , are the very worst ofenders. Rubes that keep Big Largemouths Smallmouths or Muskies or Pikes come in a close second. It makes me sick when i see it as does Tournament fishing for anything that has a chance to live a long time. All that said catching and releasing lake bass year round does not bother me provided there is no damage to recruitment. The early season on Erie is the best example of this that i know of. I'm sure that there are other fisheries that can stand this kind of explotation as well. It is also worth noting that money makes the world go round in ALL aspects of human existance and it is not a bad thing. I can say that if we think the DEC in NY is bad then the stumblebums up here in our MNR could only be considered outright criminal. Remember the strike timed to co-incide with Trout and walleye opener a few years back? Snidley

[grumpy7790]

Saranac......never tried the fishing there....but the beer is good.

G

[Mike the 'Tender]

Being able to legally catch bass in the Winter is a good thing, but leaving the season open during the spawing season will be a disaster.

[Canadian Bacon]

Being able to legally catch bass in the Winter is a good thing, but leaving the season open during the spawing season will be a disaster.

You have been conditioned to think that....as we all have.
I really don't know the answer..but, that may not be true at all!!!!