Preventable Fishing Violation #8

[Pints]

Picked up a copy of Preventable Fishing Violations fact sheet from the MNR booth at the Carp Show. It seems to imply that culling is illegal, and therefore you could be fined. I would like to know how this impacts on tournament fishing events.

Here is the wording from the fact sheet.

8. Culling. When you catch a fish that you are permitted to keep, you must immediately decide whether you wish to retain that fish or release it back to the water immediately. If your decision is to keep the fish, it becomes a part of your catch and retain limit for the day - whether or not the fish is later released. Often many of these "culled" fish will later die because of the stressed they have endured on stringers, in cages, or live wells.

I guess the violation would only occur if you culled a fish or more and then caught and kept some more in the same day, and you were observed doing so by a CO.

Once again, you can't be too careful. Good luck all.

[Tomcat]

LarryS:

I've contacted the Ontario MNR via email as to whether culling was illegal. Their written response was that "culling " IS illegal in Ontario.

As for tournaments, I believe those Conservation Officers responsible for overseeing tournaments, particularly bass tournaments, do not enforce the law (either at their own discretion or on orders from higher authorities) because of the $ that such tournaments generate. Regardless their rationale, I personally don't accept one application of the fishing regulations for recreational fishermen and another application for tournament fishermen.

Worse, you can telephone the MNR client call centre at 1-800-667-1940 and ask about culling, and if you talk to 5 different representatives, you'll probably get 5 different answers. Even worse, ask 5 different Conservation Officers, and you'll probably get 5 different answers. The most likely cause of these various interpretations is the lack of clear, precise and comprehensive fishing regulations.

[MichaelVandenberg]

If you read the regs and the information you have provided, there is laws in Ontario that state culling is illegal (possesion/limits). However, COs have not inforced these laws (that I know of) in Ontario.

It should be noted, there are a couple states that do have laws stating culling is illegal and tournaments in those states do abide by these laws (i.e.: no culling). Makes for some interesting tournament decisions. Do you keep that 2.5 lber or release it?

Most tournaments in Ontario are team events and have 5 fish limits for the tournament. That means with 2 anglers in the boat with a 6 fish limit each (with Sport licenses which should be required to fish tournaments if it isn't) means the team has a 12 fish limit by law. Given you only can weigh in 5 fish, this means you can cull up to 7 times and still be legal (keep in mind by tournament rules that you can not release a fish that appears it will not survive). Culling a 8th time would mean you have 'retained' 13 fish and now 1 angler has now broken the law.

Mike

[GamblerSteve]

I think culling rule applies to fish stringers. You cannot keep fish on a stringer and let them go as the day goes on.

Steve

[fishhit]

Mike,
Technically each fisherman is allowed 6 fish per sportfishing license, and as such once one of those anglers has retained 6 fish, retaining any fish after that point is illegal. The fact that there are two anglers in the boat is of no consequence. The culling of fish is IMO not good for the fish even if they are livewell kept subsequent to thier release. Several hours in a livewell before culling is more likely to result in the death of that fish compared to its chances of survival following its immediate release. This is the reason for this regulation.

[GamblerSteve]

The culling of fish is IMO not good for the fish even if they are livewell kept subsequent to thier release. Several hours in a livewell before culling is more likely to result in the death of that fish compared to its chances of survival following its immediate release.

If that is true fishhit then there would be a pile dead fish on very lake after tournament.

Steve

[Wall-I-Guy]

Of course culling is illegal Always has been to my knowledge.

And I agree with you Tomcat, that being said, obviously it must go on

[RJ]

As for tournaments, I believe those Conservation Officers responsible for overseeing tournaments, particularly bass tournaments, do not enforce the law (either at their own discretion or on orders from higher authorities) because of the $ that such tournaments generate. Regardless their rationale, I personally don't accept one application of the fishing regulations for recreational fishermen and another application for tournament fishermen.

Where does this money go that is "generated" from tournaments?....

[fishhit]

Gamblersteve,
The words I used were more likely. Tournament bass survival is I believe in the neighbourhood of 90% in colder water and somewhat lower in warm water down to as low as 60% in US waters during the heat of summer. Other variables such as the baits and types of hooks used and hooking location also affect survival rates.I stand by my assertion that a fish released immediately has a better statistical chance of survival over a kept and culled fish.

[Tomcat]

IMHO, Ontario’s MNR addresses culling backhandedly via separation of retaining the fish or immediately releasing the fish.

Here is a copy of an email response I received from the Ontario MNR regarding the legality of culling:

“We have received communication back from our Enforcement Branch and the Fish and Wildlife Branch. Culling is illegal in Ontario; catch and retain is when you do not immediately or forthwith release the fish. If you catch a fish and put it in a live well, it has been retained and must be counted towards your daily limit no matter when you decide to kill it. This is outlined on pages 5 (under catch and possession limits) and 9 (last paragraph under "Handling") of the 2004 Summary of the Fishing Regulations. Culling is also illegal in tournament situations. The Enforcement Branch has advised the industry that this is an issue, and they are working with them to try and find a resolution to this concern.”

However, as I posted previously, the existing Ontario Fishing Regulations are not exactly crystal clear. For instance, on page 7 of the 2005 regulations, under tips on live release of fish:

“Never put a fish that you may release on a stringer, use a functional livewell or release the fish immediately. Remember that all fish kept (in a livewell, on a stringer, etc.) and not immediately released count towards your daily catch and possession limit.” The first sentence could easily be interpreted to mean that as long as you use a functional livewell, you can release fish you have retained. I contend that the regulation should be written such that any fish retained shall not be released later. Surely it’s a simple matter to decide whether to retain or immediately release a fish.

Also, with respect to dead fish floating, I checked with MNR (Peterborough) this morning. According to that contact, not all fish that die, float. As you might suspect, there have not been definitive studies on this issue. However, when pressed for a percentage estimate, the MNR contact estimated that probably somewhere between 50/50 and 60/40 of released fish that eventually die would float.

[Gill Finigan]

As for tournaments, I believe those Conservation Officers responsible for overseeing tournaments, particularly bass tournaments, do not enforce the law (either at their own discretion or on orders from higher authorities) because of the $ that such tournaments generate. Regardless their rationale, I personally don't accept one application of the fishing regulations for recreational fishermen and another application for tournament fishermen.

Where does this money go that is "generated" from tournaments?....

Most money generated are spent in the host city or area. you work out a tourney with 75 boats. That's 150 anglers that need a place to sleep, eat, buy tackle and gas. including prefishing it can be over several days they help boost an area.

[zoomer]

i understand that culling is illegal ...this being said i am a firm believer that a fish that is released at least has a chance for survival...those that catch and eat everything they catch may be more of a problem in MY opinion.....that is not to say the odd meal is out....regts also read you must not attempt to catch more than ur possesion limit..this to me means if u have a limit in ur freezer please do not go out and bring home more just cause the bite is on....

[RJ]

Welcome aboard Gill!

Most money generated are spent in the host city or area. you work out a tourney with 75 boats. That's 150 anglers that need a place to sleep, eat, buy tackle and gas. including prefishing it can be over several days they help boost an area.

I can't speak for other areas....but this does not happen in the Ottawa area......guys gas up the night before at their local gas station.....sleep at home.....and go home right after in most cases.....and they certainly don't drop into the local tackle shop to pick up a few things.....

I have done the tournament thing....and have enjoyed it and will do it again from time to time....but let's not paint it all as a positive thing in the areas that they arrive at on Saturday mornings.....

[Wall-I-Guy]

Most money generated are spent in the host city or area. you work out a tourney with 75 boats. That's 150 anglers that need a place to sleep, eat, buy tackle and gas. including prefishing it can be over several days they help boost an area.

Hey Gill, Welcome aboard

[fishhit]

Tournament anglers in this area are not what one would think of when speaking in terms of The Bass Masters. This is not the tournament angler one sees on TV. The contestants do not pull into a 20,000 seat arena and hold up 7 lb bass. These guys only dream of this kind of situation. These guys are wannabees. They in no way represent the average angler who just wants the one in a lifetime chance at a great fish. In over 34 years of angling, most of which has been from the banks of rivers in the Ottawa area, I have yet to fish in a tournament or to use a livewell. I just want to get outdoors and have a shot at a good fish. 95% of the fish I catch go back into the water immediately. The odd fish gets kept either because it's badly hooked or because I just feel like eating fish that night. All this crap is for the elitist fisherman who fishes competitions and not of consequense to the average guy. I have a conservation license and rarely keep my limit. Most of the real guys who fish let the larger fish go. I have kissed 14 lb walleye goodbye and have seen 22" smallmouth slink beaneath the surface after unhooking. The idea of culling to win a contest is at best a disgrace to the fraternity of hard core fisherman. I fish for fun first and for second size. All the fish I catch are fun. Only one fish per year or two or three or four is for size.