I think we may be straying away from the intent of the original topic. The only reason why I would ever consider allowing only registered users to view information on this site, is if there was some security advantage to doing so, or some reason that would be related to protecting our natural resources from just anyone who reads a fishing report, as I mentioned in my previous note on the Oppinions Thread.
This poll doesn't have anything to do with people just reading the information, and opting to not register and post for whatever reason. I'm not looking to find ways to increase user count, and all anyone has to do is register once, then continue to read just as they have always done.
Naturally we encourage people to register and participate, however I don't think we can "force" them to do so, otherwise I'm sure we'd be limiting ourselves to only a specific niche of people. Many Lurkers actually do register, after they see what value is provided and want to be a part of it all. Some don't, and that's perfectly fine with me.
Again, this is not about restricting access to only registered users to gain privileges above those who don't register. It's about finding a good reason, without a doubt, why allowing only registered users is more advantageous.
I know the Polls at this time are showing a favourable vote to have only registered users, however I still have not heard any reason to do so, other than that people are not in favour of sharing information with those who don't provide information back in return. I'm not sure this is the right reason. This is not going to be an easy decision for me.
Result of your suggestions....
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GetTheNet!!!
- Silver Participant
- Posts: 674
- Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:39 pm
- Location: Peterborough, ON
Hey guys, this site is amazing, it's a great community full of great anglers and more importantly great people. There are some among us that do like to "stir the pot" and that's fine in my opinion, I tend not to take part in the more argumentative discussions, because often... I just don't care... but this vote isn't about certain noted S*%& disturbers, it's about the rediculous number of lurkers that frequent the site.
Some of you are saying 'What's wrong with lurkers?, they don't hurt me' but I've read some posts lately from people who used to post freqently with great info about spots they fish, these individuals have decided not to share that info anymore because it is being viewed and taken advantage of by people who don't participate actively in the FH community, who they don't know and haven't interacted with. And they're right! there's no reason to post on the net just for the sake of posting so that everyone with a computer can go fish your spot. Posters should definately have the ability to limit who can access their posts, that way they may feel more confident posting sensitive material, and registered users that they have interacted with will become better anglers in turn.
As a lowly '2 goldfish' participant I not hold much clout, but come wet-water season, when we're all looking for new water to fish you may appreciate it, I know I'll be more likely to name places and give directions if I know who's going to be reading my post.
Best fishes,
Matt
Some of you are saying 'What's wrong with lurkers?, they don't hurt me' but I've read some posts lately from people who used to post freqently with great info about spots they fish, these individuals have decided not to share that info anymore because it is being viewed and taken advantage of by people who don't participate actively in the FH community, who they don't know and haven't interacted with. And they're right! there's no reason to post on the net just for the sake of posting so that everyone with a computer can go fish your spot. Posters should definately have the ability to limit who can access their posts, that way they may feel more confident posting sensitive material, and registered users that they have interacted with will become better anglers in turn.
As a lowly '2 goldfish' participant I not hold much clout, but come wet-water season, when we're all looking for new water to fish you may appreciate it, I know I'll be more likely to name places and give directions if I know who's going to be reading my post.
Best fishes,
Matt
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GetTheNet!!!
- Silver Participant
- Posts: 674
- Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:39 pm
- Location: Peterborough, ON
Personally, I do not see any benefit to forcing people to register. I'm registered, yet the majority of my time spent on this site I do not log in. I don't need to log in to read so I don't. If I want to post, or PM some one, I do.
There seems to be some mixing of issues here. There is the issue of posting reports, lurking, and one of being respectful.
I said along time ago on this board that the information posted adds pressure to local waters. I firmly believe that. I think the information posted here has also increased the knowledge of many and our fish are safer because of it i.e. better and more releases, people being more respectful of the environment.
On the lurking issue - lurking is not poaching. Lurking seems to be reading information - well you know what - you cna get information all over hell and creation these days, here and everywhere else. This site doesn't encourage poaching and I find these issues to be a bit mixed here sometimes. If people read info posted here and fish named bodies of water in a respectful manner, I really don't think that is overly harmful to our fishery. If people read info here and go poach, well that is something else and it needs to be policed but shutting down the trading of information is a disservice to many here unfortunately. Maybe more PMs ar ein order.
And finally the issue of respect - I do think it is an issue here at times and I also find that some people deliberately stir the pot. A little bit of common courtesy goes a long long way and it always will, and 98% of the people that post here fit into that category.
Just my two cents
Mick
There seems to be some mixing of issues here. There is the issue of posting reports, lurking, and one of being respectful.
I said along time ago on this board that the information posted adds pressure to local waters. I firmly believe that. I think the information posted here has also increased the knowledge of many and our fish are safer because of it i.e. better and more releases, people being more respectful of the environment.
On the lurking issue - lurking is not poaching. Lurking seems to be reading information - well you know what - you cna get information all over hell and creation these days, here and everywhere else. This site doesn't encourage poaching and I find these issues to be a bit mixed here sometimes. If people read info posted here and fish named bodies of water in a respectful manner, I really don't think that is overly harmful to our fishery. If people read info here and go poach, well that is something else and it needs to be policed but shutting down the trading of information is a disservice to many here unfortunately. Maybe more PMs ar ein order.
And finally the issue of respect - I do think it is an issue here at times and I also find that some people deliberately stir the pot. A little bit of common courtesy goes a long long way and it always will, and 98% of the people that post here fit into that category.
Just my two cents
Mick
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almontefisher
- Diamond Participant
- Posts: 2971
- Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:08 pm
- Location: Carleton Place
I think that this site is good any way it is done. Having a registered only section would be good but how long until someone registers just to get into that area and read everything that is going on. Lurkers will register under sydonyms and continue to lurk. What if we had a section for people that wanted to post reports ( full reports with info) for other people but you can only get in if you have so many posts under your belt...for example only 2 goldfish people may access this thread etc. Then you will know if the people are there to lurk and steal info or if they are really FHers looking for advice.
Back to the initial question.....I guess if people can register under any name and lurk at will (not that there is anything wrong with that) then there is no benifit of a requirement to register. It's not going to stop people from being vile or rude or even urge them to participate more. It won't be any advantage whatsoever because you still have ZERO control over them.I guess you have to hope that most who come to FH will be courteous, like minded people who will be honest and not force a members only attitude.
Some things that will be more likely to maintain a civil site are , zero tolerance on BS( banning for life)and stiffer penalties on rule breaking ( suspensions).
NO, registration will not do a single thing, and neither will mandatory name showing,like said before ,you can't confirm people are lying about that.
So you basically have to accept that people will lie cheat steal and get away with whatever they can or be nice, and then deal with it as it happens.
Matt
Some things that will be more likely to maintain a civil site are , zero tolerance on BS( banning for life)and stiffer penalties on rule breaking ( suspensions).
NO, registration will not do a single thing, and neither will mandatory name showing,like said before ,you can't confirm people are lying about that.
So you basically have to accept that people will lie cheat steal and get away with whatever they can or be nice, and then deal with it as it happens.
Matt
For those of you who have a fear of using their own name.
Are you listed in the telephone book.
Are you on a voters list?
Are you aware of City Directories?
Do you subscribe to any public information sites?
Do you receive mail?
Just think for a second how accessible your name address & telephone # really is.
There is a vast network of name & address resellers - you can't hide in this world anywhere.
Posting to the net is about as dangerous to your personal security as you care to make it but using your own name poses no great threat - it's already out there in more ways than you will ever know.
Are you listed in the telephone book.
Are you on a voters list?
Are you aware of City Directories?
Do you subscribe to any public information sites?
Do you receive mail?
Just think for a second how accessible your name address & telephone # really is.
There is a vast network of name & address resellers - you can't hide in this world anywhere.
Posting to the net is about as dangerous to your personal security as you care to make it but using your own name poses no great threat - it's already out there in more ways than you will ever know.
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GetTheNet!!!
- Silver Participant
- Posts: 674
- Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:39 pm
- Location: Peterborough, ON
I like it, in order for people to earn a little bit of knowledge they have to make a commitment first in the form of some posts of their own.almontefisher wrote:I think that this site is good any way it is done. Having a registered only section would be good but how long until someone registers just to get into that area and read everything that is going on. Lurkers will register under sydonyms and continue to lurk. What if we had a section for people that wanted to post reports ( full reports with info) for other people but you can only get in if you have so many posts under your belt...for example only 2 goldfish people may access this thread etc. Then you will know if the people are there to lurk and steal info or if they are really FHers looking for advice.
Very interesting debate but I think it took a wrong turn somewhere along the lines...
At least what I think spawned this debate was "How much info is too much to be posting for everyone to see regarding spots?".....Simply put....FH can't control people from coming on to read reports....yes you can make them register...but consider FH already has 2532 registered members today.....yet if I had to bet...I'd ballpark 75-100 being regular contributors...making people register to be able to read won't change much....if anything at all...what's going to push these new registrants to start posting when 2000 plus don't post now?
So in reality....only the contributing members can control what goes out there.....so do as you wish with your info....after all it is yours to share or keep.....my only point in my prior comments is that they do come with consenquences...more of a heads up than anything...if posting spots doesn't affect fishing spots....let's see some information from some information partners...
..I'm kidding....but ya get the point.... 
Folks are referring to flaming....ya I've seen a few pokes given and have given my own out as well....but I think this board has basically been running moderator free for months....it's very clean.....the membership is 100% to be commeneded for that....I'll be keeping my comments to myself from now on as it's simply not worth it to get in a pee pee match with some...
I think my comments last week must have struck a few the wrong way about my views on message boards.....I personally think they are a great asset to any fisherman!....They are way to meet people to hook up to head out on the water with...I've been lucky enough to meet and become lifelong friends with people I've met on this very site and without it I wouldn't be packing my bags to fish Kesagami Lake this coming weekend...(Is it Thursday yet?)..they are great for finding out about new gear or learning about new tactics that can put fish in your boat....it's all good....
I think it's fine how it is Bobber....considering your closest counterpart (OFN) has 10 moderators...you are doing a fine job with it...don't make it more than you can handle....things take care of themselves in the end....
RJ
At least what I think spawned this debate was "How much info is too much to be posting for everyone to see regarding spots?".....Simply put....FH can't control people from coming on to read reports....yes you can make them register...but consider FH already has 2532 registered members today.....yet if I had to bet...I'd ballpark 75-100 being regular contributors...making people register to be able to read won't change much....if anything at all...what's going to push these new registrants to start posting when 2000 plus don't post now?
So in reality....only the contributing members can control what goes out there.....so do as you wish with your info....after all it is yours to share or keep.....my only point in my prior comments is that they do come with consenquences...more of a heads up than anything...if posting spots doesn't affect fishing spots....let's see some information from some information partners...
..I'm kidding....but ya get the point.... Folks are referring to flaming....ya I've seen a few pokes given and have given my own out as well....but I think this board has basically been running moderator free for months....it's very clean.....the membership is 100% to be commeneded for that....I'll be keeping my comments to myself from now on as it's simply not worth it to get in a pee pee match with some...
I think my comments last week must have struck a few the wrong way about my views on message boards.....I personally think they are a great asset to any fisherman!....They are way to meet people to hook up to head out on the water with...I've been lucky enough to meet and become lifelong friends with people I've met on this very site and without it I wouldn't be packing my bags to fish Kesagami Lake this coming weekend...(Is it Thursday yet?)..they are great for finding out about new gear or learning about new tactics that can put fish in your boat....it's all good....
I think it's fine how it is Bobber....considering your closest counterpart (OFN) has 10 moderators...you are doing a fine job with it...don't make it more than you can handle....things take care of themselves in the end....
RJ
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Clausewitz
- Participant
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:32 pm
- Location: Ottawa, Ontario
- Contact:
I'm of mixed opinions on this.
On the one hand I want to protect important information, perhaps one forum for members only - but we also can PM secret spots to each other already.
And I want the majority of discussions for anyone to read as it maximizes the spread of good information. Especially the discussions around conservation / pro-catch and release etc.
I also like the idea of adding a new sub-forum for introductions, a newbieland where they can learn the forum rules and culture. Perhaps 10 posts in newbieland before being allowed to post in the rest of the board.
About real name posting. Anonymity is an internet tradition, nicknames become part of the fun of posting on a board. I have met a number of posters here in RL and look forward to meeting more, but I respect the privacy of those that want to post nickname only - just ban anyone with multiple accounts to one IP or if they violate decorum rules. I would suggest temp bans to people for minor offenses and perma-ban the goetse types.
On the one hand I want to protect important information, perhaps one forum for members only - but we also can PM secret spots to each other already.
And I want the majority of discussions for anyone to read as it maximizes the spread of good information. Especially the discussions around conservation / pro-catch and release etc.
I also like the idea of adding a new sub-forum for introductions, a newbieland where they can learn the forum rules and culture. Perhaps 10 posts in newbieland before being allowed to post in the rest of the board.
About real name posting. Anonymity is an internet tradition, nicknames become part of the fun of posting on a board. I have met a number of posters here in RL and look forward to meeting more, but I respect the privacy of those that want to post nickname only - just ban anyone with multiple accounts to one IP or if they violate decorum rules. I would suggest temp bans to people for minor offenses and perma-ban the goetse types.
<a href="http://www.fish-hawk.net/hawktalk/viewt ... 3375"><img src="http://www.fish-hawk.net/hawk-pic/info.gif"></a>
James
Adventure Partner
<i>Speak Softly and Carry a Big Fish</i>
James
Adventure Partner
<i>Speak Softly and Carry a Big Fish</i>
Thanks RJ - well said
I have been a hat wearing member of this site for a few years now. I am not one to post very often and I think I am not alone. I do enjoy reading most of the postings. Yes - Sometimes people do get carried away but that is just life and that is fine. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone is entitled to agree or disagree - just try to be respectful.
For the most part I think the more vocal
members help Bobber to keep things under control. For what it is worth, I am of the opinion that the most controversy on this site seems to happen in the spring and the fall - in between soft and hardwater or hard and soft. Maybe is is like some have said - "cabin fever or is it fishing action withdrawal .
As for sharing secret "honey" spots, others have said it better - the great fishing that happened yesterday may not produce anything for the next 2 years or more - the D@#$ fish don't register on FH and give us all updates on what is happening at school. 
Bobber -- we know or sort of understand the amount of your valuable time you give to this site and maybe we we don't thank you enough. Thankyou --- Do you really need to put more controls in place especially if that means more work for you and possibily dare I say it - less fishing time.
that's my two cents worth for this year.
I have been a hat wearing member of this site for a few years now. I am not one to post very often and I think I am not alone. I do enjoy reading most of the postings. Yes - Sometimes people do get carried away but that is just life and that is fine. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone is entitled to agree or disagree - just try to be respectful.
For the most part I think the more vocal
members help Bobber to keep things under control. For what it is worth, I am of the opinion that the most controversy on this site seems to happen in the spring and the fall - in between soft and hardwater or hard and soft. Maybe is is like some have said - "cabin fever or is it fishing action withdrawal .As for sharing secret "honey" spots, others have said it better - the great fishing that happened yesterday may not produce anything for the next 2 years or more - the D@#$ fish don't register on FH and give us all updates on what is happening at school.
Bobber -- we know or sort of understand the amount of your valuable time you give to this site and maybe we we don't thank you enough. Thankyou --- Do you really need to put more controls in place especially if that means more work for you and possibily dare I say it - less fishing time.
that's my two cents worth for this year.
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HitmanHill
- Bronze Participant
- Posts: 369
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:52 pm
- Location: Kanata
Okay, Okaay, Okay...... I agree to a certain point that some people have to believe that a site is viable to get there point acrosss and I can't say that I haven't felt the way many people feel. Iif you don't have connections to the site or you feel intimadated by what you say you will reduce or stop your postings. This is very sad and if you feel this way, and I have read many post and I have seen people who have posted multiple post and all of a sudden stop posting for whatever reason. That to me is their choose and I think they should write the group and tell us why they think this site has disappointed them or change their reasoning. I personelly think this site is just set up the way it should be to let everyone that is connected to express their views and see that there are a whole lot of people out there that have their own opinion. You may not agree to every posting but you should except that the person that is writing this see it a little different then the way you might see it and just maybe, MAYBE you can see this persons view from that angle.
I guess I will throw my opinion in as well 
I think that membership is beneficial to the site even if, as RJ suggest, only 1 in 20 of the members becomes a contributor. In a recent post that that I was involved with, that turned into a heated debate, I received a number of PM's and e-mails from members who said that this type of heated debate is the reason why they don't bother to post. I was even provided a link to another site where I was told that it was a much more friendly environment. I point all of this out as a lead-in to my suggestions.
As I said, I believe that the site benefits by getting more members and so I think that there should be an incentive for members to join. I think that the existing open access to Fish Talk should remain accessible to non-members. However, I think a "Members Only" section for posting such things as fishing reports, new tackle and any other specific items of interest that would encourage non-members to join in order to view more than just the general fishing talk.
A very visible message to non-members entering the site that explains how easy it is to join and the benefits derived from membership would help to encourage many of these so-called lurkers to become valuable members on the site.
As has been pointed out many times in this thread and many other threads there is allot of overly negative debate that develops from some postings. This is not beneficial to the site and discourages non-members from wanting to participate on a site where they could find themselves under unpleasant attack for innocent comments in a post. I would like to suggest that we create a separate section accessible to members only that would be dedicated to "Issues and Debate". Rather than hijack someone elses post to push personal opinions and agendas, users could simply post within the thread that they are posting a response on the "Issues/Debate' forum as they feel there is an important issue to be discussed. Those that are so inclined can then go to that forum and engage in whatever debate they like. Meanwhile the original thread can continue for the purpose that it was posted. This might help to reduce the number of discussions that turn nasty, avoid the site airing its dirty laundry to the entire web and encourage more positive questions and information sharing on the Fish Talk forum.
In regards to protecting the site from non-members grabbing information that users do not wish to share, I personally do not think it is a big issue. As other members have pointed out, there is a PM functionality that allows users to share what they want specifically with those users they wish to share with. As an example, on Sunday I posted a question regarding fishing on the Mississippi River. Almontefisher very kindly sent me a PM with some excellent information that he had gained from fishing that body of water. A true example of how established members can choose to support one another without having to share with the world8)
When non-members see responses such as AlmonteFisher's that advises they are sending a PM with the information it has got to be a great incentive to want to join such a site.
Those are my thoughts on the matter and I would also like to echo what Viper had to say......although it is not stated often enough.....the excellent work that you do on managing this site is very much appreciated
Suddsy
I think that membership is beneficial to the site even if, as RJ suggest, only 1 in 20 of the members becomes a contributor. In a recent post that that I was involved with, that turned into a heated debate, I received a number of PM's and e-mails from members who said that this type of heated debate is the reason why they don't bother to post. I was even provided a link to another site where I was told that it was a much more friendly environment. I point all of this out as a lead-in to my suggestions.
As I said, I believe that the site benefits by getting more members and so I think that there should be an incentive for members to join. I think that the existing open access to Fish Talk should remain accessible to non-members. However, I think a "Members Only" section for posting such things as fishing reports, new tackle and any other specific items of interest that would encourage non-members to join in order to view more than just the general fishing talk.
A very visible message to non-members entering the site that explains how easy it is to join and the benefits derived from membership would help to encourage many of these so-called lurkers to become valuable members on the site.
As has been pointed out many times in this thread and many other threads there is allot of overly negative debate that develops from some postings. This is not beneficial to the site and discourages non-members from wanting to participate on a site where they could find themselves under unpleasant attack for innocent comments in a post. I would like to suggest that we create a separate section accessible to members only that would be dedicated to "Issues and Debate". Rather than hijack someone elses post to push personal opinions and agendas, users could simply post within the thread that they are posting a response on the "Issues/Debate' forum as they feel there is an important issue to be discussed. Those that are so inclined can then go to that forum and engage in whatever debate they like. Meanwhile the original thread can continue for the purpose that it was posted. This might help to reduce the number of discussions that turn nasty, avoid the site airing its dirty laundry to the entire web and encourage more positive questions and information sharing on the Fish Talk forum.
In regards to protecting the site from non-members grabbing information that users do not wish to share, I personally do not think it is a big issue. As other members have pointed out, there is a PM functionality that allows users to share what they want specifically with those users they wish to share with. As an example, on Sunday I posted a question regarding fishing on the Mississippi River. Almontefisher very kindly sent me a PM with some excellent information that he had gained from fishing that body of water. A true example of how established members can choose to support one another without having to share with the world8)
When non-members see responses such as AlmonteFisher's that advises they are sending a PM with the information it has got to be a great incentive to want to join such a site.Those are my thoughts on the matter and I would also like to echo what Viper had to say......although it is not stated often enough.....the excellent work that you do on managing this site is very much appreciated
Suddsy
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Joisey Joe
- Diamond Participant
- Posts: 2000
- Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 7:25 am
- Location: Landing, NJ
- Contact:
Why not Bobber, I joined this site to find out how to fish the northern waters, it's why I became a member. I believe there should be an advantage to registering and participating, anyone can join and it's free, being a member is a simple keystroke away. So your not excluding anyone, I don't see a downside. This greybeard's opine, Joe.