Sad story out of Hamilton this morning.

[joco]

HI RJ.

I do actualy like to no what is going on wit are fisheries all over the country. so i do think this tread was a good ideal.


IT did went to far.

but hey,,it always gone to be like this wen it come to HOT subject, .

and its nice to have some response.

remember.cats die off last year...or musky die off,,,,we were all trying to get more info about it.

so wen people do see tons off fish die on shore.........question have to be answer.


i do think those responsble people that did that carnage will change there way next time.(lets hope).


joco.

[big-o]

Good posts steve, I like when the topic is backed-up by evidence and not conjecture. I know I may pee pee of some carop fisherpeople BUT carp are a problem and are getting worse.

I have fished the Rideau river for 20 yeras and the change is very noticeable. I thought and so did others that it was just thwe natural evolution of the river but now I believe aftre watching carp spawn in June and in the shallowws they are destroying other fish habitat. The rideau used to have lilly pads galore and now it's hard to find them. Largemouth used to live there, now there are areas devoid of any vegetation or cover and that is what the bass and other fish used for eating and surviving as well as spawning. I would estimate that 70% of the cover that used to be in the river is gone and will not return until the rootuing nature of the carp is erradicated.


://fish-hawk.net/

mikemicropterus.... I grew up on the Rideau and I fish the Rideau I was fishing on the Rideau river years before Moonys bay beach was built, the Rideau Canoe club had 2 canoes, and old run down shack as a club house and for the life of me I can't think of one place that is now void of weeds.. I fish acers of pads around the Osgoode area , I also fish near Kars where I normaly launch from , the carp have been Spawing in this area for as long as i can remember, over 40 years.. and I have yet to see any vegitation damage by Carp. I would think that Spring run off of road salt, fertilizers from farms , lawn chemicals from the million dollor homes on the Rideau, hundreds of 20' to 40' boats turning up 4 foot waves .. tearing at the shore lines are doing more damage to the echco system along the Rideau than Spawing carp. And if you have ever tried to fish the Rideau from Kemptville to Long Island on any weekend., or long weekend you will know what I mean .would you not agree?? I don't know how much money that is brought in to Ontario every year by Europions(spelling )but talking to a few of these guys from England on the Larry every year... these Carp fishermen may spend up $10,000 to come to Canada to catch Carp.. this fishery is in it's infancy and will continue to grow, and we will benifit from the extra moneys it brings in ... I have no problem with the cleaning up of Carp in the hamilton harbour... I just thought it could have been handled in a better maner. ... see you on the water

Phil

[Kpin]

My last post here also. Not a newsflash that carp are an invasive species. Gives food for thought about possible contaminants they may contain, given the extremely low consumption rate, therefore, extended lifespan and size.

What concerns me the most, ironically about this thread is the nature of discussion. Yelling the loudest doesn't make you right. Nor does slandering or namecalling of people you don't even know.

New members?...demonstrated this behavior. Showing they cannot maturely discuss a subject without resorting to such behavior. I sincerely hope it's not the younger generation. We currently have many fine ambassadors of which...Tipup and his bro, Yungflyfisher and others. So I'm pretty content with our new generation of anglers. If older anglers...well... for shame, as you already know better.

This thread as others has gone the way of namecalling and insults rather than a mature discussion we could learn from.

I say to our new members that demonstrated this...not really a positive introduction. Respect others opinions and state your own. It's that simple. It boils down to respect.

A very simple word, I know MOST of our members consider important.

[joco]

this tread about carp sher get a lot off attention..


ok guys.lets this one cool down.....and lock it.


lets start talking about fishing now.i need to see fishing report.

and camaderie kind off tread.

joco.

[Fish'n Buddy]

I agree with Tip-up...I havin't been a member for very long so my opinion isin't that valid...but from what i've seen over the past 5 months or so, theres alot of good guys on here....but theres alot of guys who spend all their time trying to stir the pot and take jabs at one another...

Tip-up are you fishing out of a boat?

[Scum Frog]

From what I understand ( THX Steve!!!) The cull was needed. RGB missed the boat with how they were disposed. I can imagine the smell

[getnjiggywithit]

Ive been to Hamilton and have seen the carp barriers... The government has spent a lot time and $$$ researching the problem... If you have ever seen the carp population in the harbor then you would understand why its necessary! I don't expect alot of people from Ottawa would understand, but just to compare... Ottawa has a little bit of a deer problem as in there are way to many within city limits! City folk like to feed them and encourage them to stick around while everyone else is swerving to avoid them on the highway.... Every year the mnr conducts controlled hunts within city limits in order to thin out the herds! The only differance is that the meat ussually gets donated to the food bank or soup kitchens, etc. If the mnr were to advertise the slaughter of the deer every year then every treehuggin, grass eaten, granola crappen activist's would be up in arms about it.... I agree that the carp shouldn't have been left on the bank to rot, but the population needed to be thinned out... keep in mind that the mnr don't even have enough $ to put gas in there trucks let alone carting dead carp off to somewere to be disposed of...
my 2cents

[wolfe]

Pardon the naivity, but relating to the culling of these carp, you'd assume it was a planned project, at least loosely so -- so it would have been discussed in advance. You'd think (hope) something could have been arranged with regard to the disposal of the fish -- i.e. fertilizer, local zoo, etc. I guess I'm not buying that these fish are actually "toxic" in the true sense of the word. Maybe not considered a delicacy among humans, but surely to turn over into the soil on some farm would have been better than to chuck them up on shore to literally ROT.

I'm always a little put off by any kind of mass culling, but moreso than that is the huge waste involved here -- and also the fact that it is definitely a big no-no with regard to health issues. Doesn't the bacteria from these hundreds of decomposing carp carcasses just run right off back into the water? Talk about toxic.

Seems assanine to me & a plan that was perhaps only half thought out, whether by ignorance or laziness, I'm not sure.

W.

PS: RJ & Big-O -- Hi guys...both of you...WOW, I feel like I'm back in the hood.

[Jackel]

Another link from the U.S.

http://www.timesrepublican.com/News/art ... cleID=8819

Jackel

[big-o]

PS: RJ & Big-O -- Hi guys...both of you...WOW, I feel like I'm back in the hood.

Hi Wolfe,

[Carpcatcher]

17 years on & still Carp get the blame for man made problems. The harbour looks much the same but there are tell tale signs of accelerated eutrophication. One thing has changed though, the Carp population is severely diminished due to a virus called KHV, this is carp specific, so no other fish are affected. The carp population is no longer out of balance.
Hamilton Harbour can never be restored to what it was 100+ years ago, as the RBG would have us all believe. The Ecosystem is entirely different from that time & will never be the same. There are huge stress loads on the harbour & at one point was in danger of losing most of the aquatic life within. More recently though, it has been improved but there is a limit to what can be achieved with so much industry & population dynamics which will always negatively affect the system. Toxic Carp? well you would have to include more than half of the fish population in Ontario ! they are all contaminated, these chemicals track through the food chain starting at the bottom of the chain eventually affecting top predatory fish. Is the answer to take out the Carp? not really, that would be like painting over rusty metal, a temporary fix but what really needs to happen is really difficult, since the ravages of progress have taken their toll.
What about the Carp? are there too many, do they degrade the water, can there be a balance in the Ecosystem ?
You have to look at the Ecosystem & for it to be healthy there needs to be the correct balance between all parts of the system for it to work properly. Hamilton Harbour is not balanced. There have been many problems limiting parts of the system. When this occurs certain parts of the chain get expanded because of lack of predation etc. Carp are very adaptable fish, being able to withstand poor water condition/pollution, when other species would struggle or even die! This itself will create an imbalance. Not actually the fault of Carp, just bad management of the urban situation by Man. The influx of suspended particle matter via stream flow into the harbour is unbelievable. This results in deep muddy silt build up which eventually needs to be dredged to maintain a flow channel. This particulate blocks out photosynthesis & limits plant growth, another imbalance of the system. Source contamination- water carried into the harbour from outside picking up industrial spills, debris from transportation etc. The Harbour itself is far removed from what it was naturally 1 or 2 centuries ago. Substantial Marsh wetland & shallows have been filled in. These are the types of habitat fish need to spawn in. Now limited to Cootes Paradise, it's a very fragile environment subject to extreme water temps, low oxygen & high flow rates in the spring when many fish would spawn. Carp can no longer access this area, so Id be interested for an unbiased opinion on the state of it now.
Definately no simple solution is there? but one thing is for sure, we need to clean up our act & stop using carp as a scapegoat. Maybe it's too late to bring back Cootes, but we need to take heed & learn from our mistakes, some thing that so far we have all not been very good at.

[HarryPotter69]

The lack of planning and wasteful disposal of the carp raises concerns about environmental and health risks. Proper consideration and exploration of alternative solutions could have mitigated these issues. This highlights the importance of responsible stewardship of natural resources.