Proposed Changes to NY Bass Regs

[Superdad]

Found this on "The Fishing Networks' News Wire and thought it would be of interest to people on this board.


NEW: Whole New Angle
Spiel -- Wed, Mar/9/05

DEC mulls year-round bass fishing

Friday, March 04, 2005
By J. Michael Kelly
Staff writer/The Post Standard

The Department of Environmental Conservation is about to toss a big, juicy bone to New York bass anglers by allowing them to go after their favorite fish year-round.

Under current regulations, the annual season for largemouth and smallmouth bass in most waters of the state runs from the third Saturday in June through Nov. 30. With a few local exceptions, including Lake Erie and seven of the 11 Finger Lakes, fishermen are forbidden to target bass the rest of the year, even if they toss back all they hook.

But that prohibition may soon be lifted. State biologists are proposing to allow catch-and-release bass fishing from Dec. 1 through the day before the start of the regular season on most of the state's lakes and rivers.

Outside of the regular season, bass anglers would be limited to using artificial lures or flies - no live bait - and would have to release any bass they catch immediately after landing. The new policy would take effect on Oct. 1, 2006.

Several fishing holes, including part of eastern Lake Ontario, the St. Lawrence River and the lower Hudson River, would remain closed during the off-season.

State Bureau of Fisheries Chief Doug Stang said year-round bass fishing is one of 96 angling regulation changes being evaluated by the DEC.

Other proposals include a larger minimum creel size for Lake Ontario rainbow trout and extensions of fishing seasons on several popular Central New York trout streams.

It's the extra six months of bass fishing, however, that is likely to cause the biggest ripple among anglers. According to a 2001 federal survey, bass are New Yorkers' favorite game fish. The study showed 387,000 resident and non-resident fishermen spend about 5 million angler days per year trying for bass in state waters.

"We've been asking for this for a long time," said Mike Cusano of Clay, who is the conservation director of the New York State BASS Federation. "Every April, I can walk out on my dock on the Oneida River and see big bass chasing bait, but I can't fish for them until mid-June."

New York traditionally has barred spring-time bass fishing to protect the species from exploitation during its spawning period. Male bass are known to guard newly hatched fry from hungry sunfish, and studies conducted in Canada and elsewhere suggested that males pulled from nesting areas by fishermen often do not return to their posts before significant predation has occurred.

However, Stang said a review of recent bass-related studies by Cornell University researchers Randy Jackson and Tom Brooking sheds doubt on some of the old assumptions about spring fishing.

"For one thing, it indicates the current closed season does not provide as much protection for bass as we once thought," Stang said. "In about half of our lakes, male bass are still guarding nests when the regular season opens."

Jackson and Brooking, who work out of Cornell's Biological Field Station on the south shore of Oneida Lake, found that bass reproduction varies dramatically from year to year, in New York as well as in states that have year-round fishing for the species.

Aside from year-round bass fishing, the most controversial proposal under consideration is a plan to raise the minimum creel length for rainbow (steelhead) trout in Lake Ontario and its tributaries from the current 15 inches to 21 inches.

That change was recommended by the DEC after some angler organizations objected to an earlier proposal to cut the daily creel limit in the lake from three rainbows a day to one. The limit in Ontario tributaries already stands at one 'bow per day.

"Either cutting the creel limit or raising the minimum creel length would reduce the lakewide harvest of steelhead by about 20 percent per year," Stang said.

Another rule change, recommended by DEC Region 7 Fisheries Manager Dan Bishop, would allow catch-and-release, artificials-only angling for trout from Oct. 16-March 31 in Owego Creek and its branches, in Tioga and Tompkins counties; the East and West branches of the Tioughnioga River, in Cortland and Madison counties; the Otselic River in Cortland, Chenango and Madison counties, Salmon Creek above Ludlowville Falls, in Cayuga and Tompkins counties; and Skaneateles Creek in Onondaga County.

Bishop has also recommended doing away with the extant special regulations for bass fishing on the Unadilla River in Chenango County and trout fishing on Spafford Creek in Onondaga County in favor of statewide rules, and changing the creel limit for walleyes in Oswego County's Redfield Reservoir to three of 18 inches or better a day.

He also proposed allowing catch-and-release fishing for trout in Ithaca's Fall Creek from Jan. 1 through March 15, from the railroad bridge downstream of Route 13 up to the Ithaca Falls; and would open the same creek below the railroad bridge to pan fishermen from New Year's Day through March. Under current regulations, lower Fall Creek is closed to all angling between Jan. 1 and April 1.

[Seaweed]

I think that this one might back-fire in their faces. Just a prediction. Personally I feel that any fish sitting on its nest guarding its young should have protection.

[orrsey]

Im with Seaweed. I wish I knew more about this but it just doesnt seem right to be yankin bass of nests. Maybe they will go right back after they have been caught but what about the ones that have been hooked in the gills, throat, etc. Again I am not an expert but it just seems best to allow them to protect their young without humans targeting them. Wheres CCB? I know he can help us out with this topic.

[MichaelVandenberg]

However, Stang said a review of recent bass-related studies by Cornell University researchers Randy Jackson and Tom Brooking sheds doubt on some of the old assumptions about spring fishing.

"For one thing, it indicates the current closed season does not provide as much protection for bass as we once thought," Stang said. "In about half of our lakes, male bass are still guarding nests when the regular season opens."

I would like to know more about this study. I do agree with what 'Stang' says in that there are a lot of bass still on nest when the season opens. Still doesn't mean the season should be opened up even though it will be purely catch and release.

Cheers,

Mike

[Markus]

The new BPS opening in Buffalo will love this.

[SkeeterJohn]

It's strange that i read and watch video clips of guys in the US purposly fishing for bass on their spawning beds.

You'll hear things like "stop the lure when it comes over the bed and the female will usually be the one to attack the bait.. the males can be very hard to tempt off the bed..."

Now i know we have a much shorter season up here but are those in the north just more hypersensitive when it comes ot spawning bass

[Cancatchbass]

Here I is!

I believe what the NYSDEC is looking at may have some merit.

There have been numerous studies done in various states that show that allowing fishing during the spawn has little or no affect on the number of fish that actually reach maturity.

These studies were done by using two lakes, one a control lake that was completely out-of bounds for ALL angling, and the other where catch-and-release fishing was practiced on a year-round basis.

The results, monitored over several years, showed no appreciable difference between the quality of fishing in either lake. The reason being that RECRUITMENT was not shown to be affected by fishing during the spawn. Let me see if I can find a clear definition of recruitment somewhere, and I'll post it later. For now- the following paragraph will have to do:

The Ontario studies show that fishing during the spawn allows predation of the eggs/fry. Sure- that's obvious. But what several U.S. agencies have found is that this predation does not affect the number of fry actually surviving to adulthood. Since many of those agencies have budgets that I'd guess are far greater than what the OMNR has to work with, I can't see them necessarily being wrong and us being right.

The bedfishing bashers may be bringing the human traits of motherhood and protect the children at all costs to this argument, but I guess each angler can decide for him/herself if he/she wants to target pre-spawn or bedding fish, as long as it is legal.

I know I have no problem nailing pre-spawn and spawning crappie. Different species, more prolific, but same general idea.

If New York goes ahead with this proposal, it will take MANY years to see if it is a progressive move or not. In any case, we here in Ontario can only benefit from their studies. I hope they go for it.

CCB

[Seaweed]

My problem with the whole studys indicate issue is this.

Generally these studies don`t cover much of a time period and that is because time is money.

If they took the time to do a long term study (over five years) of year-round open season on bass angling and factored in that a longer season would equate to more and more anglers targeting these fish I think that the results would be enough to cause them to think better of doing this.

But ... then again money being the all powerful dictator of what we do and don`t do ... and the ever increasing amount of Bass Pro shops being built... we will probably see Canadians soon fishing for bass during the spawn also.

Then somewhere down the road when I Great-Grandson looks me in the eye and asks me why there are not as many fish around anymore.... I will have to tell him that studies show that they are slowly coming back to being more and more of them since they stopped fishing for them during the spawning season.

But by then the Bass Pro Shop will have gone bankrupt from lack of sales due to poor fishing conditions.

[SkeeterJohn]

BPS don't set the laws.

[ganman]

I don't know about this. I'm skeptical CCB.

Here's something I thought of over the years. On our current opener there are bass still on the beds. Since this is the critical time why not close the season all June but open the rest of the year?

The current NY opener on the St Lawrence/Lake Ontario is too early to protect bedding bass anyway.

We should look at Minnesota. Similar conditions great fishing with longer bass seasons.

[Seaweed]

Big money sets the laws John... don`t ever doubt it.

Deleted...

Good point Craig....

[eye-tracker]

I have read a lot of studies that cover the same topic with walleye and have noticed that they also have merit with the number of fry surviving to adulthood with or without the control season is about the same.

I would like to see NY DEC make this move with Bass. It could really change the way we look at the closed seasons here in Ontario.

Seaweed, I think the NYDEC has a group of fishery biologists that are looking at what is best for the fishery, not the money bass tackle companies are going to make.

cheers'

-et

[Canadian Bacon]

Big money sets the laws John... don`t ever doubt it.

Case in point both murder cases in California

Baretta gets off of his even though he had more proof against him

The other guy who has been found guilty of killing his wife and son... gets the shot in the arm execution

Do you think OJ did it?

Do you think Bush cares about the Artic tundra... not a chance... money is driving the bus all the way to the bank and right on to the brink of extinction.

Hey bud, to me tht is pretty off topic and a far strech to make your case and point..not sure how the blend together on this.
As far as the courts go and who is guilty and who is not...that is for the jury to decide based on the evidence...people outside of that can come to thier own conclusions but face it..if your not in that court room...you don't really know what is going on. Don't forget to find a man guilty or not...you don't just have to convince one person therer are 12 jurors.

WE are also not the experts on setting fishing regulations. We have people to do that for us. We can have our opinions of course but I really don't think most of us know even a quarter of what the experts know! that is why we have people to do it for us.

It's the same reason we have a government to make decisions. You may not agree on everything and it is human nature to disagree and argue. It is also human nature to slam every government in power unfortunately! People are never happy with decisions made by others..people think thier opinion or idea is the best....but lets not forget we know very little with wich to make our judgments!

[CNs]

The results, monitored over several years, showed no appreciable difference between the quality of fishing in either lake. The reason being that RECRUITMENT was not shown to be affected by fishing during the spawn. Let me see if I can find a clear definition of recruitment somewhere, and I'll post it later. For now- the following paragraph will have to do:

From the latest in fisherman 2005 bass issue :

"Factors that limit recruitment: Recruitment can mean different things in fishery science. In recreational fisheries the term generally means fish surviving to catchable size. For bass, the first year of life is critical to this transition. To join the catchable population, hatchlings must survive and grow. And survival, it turns out, is strongly tied to growth...."

In Fisherman also quotes Canadian studies of removing bass from beds and the effects.

[ganman]

I wouldn't assume the NYDEC to do the right thing on this one. NY has over 15,000 miles of trout streams, many blue ribbon rivers and the DEC has done its best to screw them up. Angler groups have dragged them kicking and screaming into established C&R zones and managing rivers for quality wild trout angling over dumping in millions of hatchery junk.

Seaweed is not as far off the mark as some assume. They fully understand the more angling opportunities = more license sold = more income.

Don't forget it wasn't long ago the NYDEC allowed snagging in Lake Ontario tribs during the salmon run. If I remember correctly they dragged their feet on that one.

That being said I am the first to say they do alot right. I've bought a NY license for 25 years and know that as well as anyone.