Fish-Hawk.Net

This is my second posting to this website (my first was to ask a question about the OFFS location a minute ago). I have been reading things here for a few months but only joined recently.

I started fly fishing a year ago after many years of pretty much no fishing at all (having been a rabid bass fisherboy when I was younger). Most of my fishing, and all of my fishing that starts from Ottawa, is divided between about 10% Calabogie and 90% Upstate New York (usually the Chateaugay and the Salmon River near Malone, with the occasional trip to the Au Sable).

I have not seen much posted about fly fishing on these rivers, even in the spring.

Thus my questions:

1. Is there any reason there is not too much talk about the Chateaugay and the Salmon, or other trout rivers in Upstate New York?

2. Could anybody who has been down there recently tell what it was like? (I wonder about the water temperature especially).

Any comments would be useful. Thanks for considering this.

Michel from Sport Action goes down there pretty much weekly. He could give you info on the conditions. Another friend just came back from the West Branch. He said he managed 17 browns over 3 days, but the fishing was pretty much limited to 5-6:30am, after which the bite died. He also said that the water level on the west branch between Placid and Willmington was low.

With respect to the lack of threads on these rivers, basically there are not too many fly fishers on FH from Eastern ON, let alone ones that go down to NY. Most of the guys I know that go down there are not on FH.

Cheers,
Todd

Manfred,

Although I haven't been there in a few weeks in general the rivers are still worth going to. The last time I made the trek the rivers were blown out from that nasty spell of rain but we still managed a few. These hot temps probably aren't doing the fishing any good but it's always nice to get down there rather than not.

If it's more of a general question, the river's are still good and well maintained (in terms of stocking anyhow). I'd say it's worth going back if nothing more than to fire up the old rod again.

Cheers

duplicate

I fly fished those rivers for years and August and September are my favourite months in the Adirondacks.

Why? A dozen reasons. It's easy to find fish. Find water below 70F....preferably 68F or less and chances are you find fish. The stockies have taken a culling. Those left are bigger and behave like real trout-more or less. There are less fishermen around. The bugs are gone. The wading is usually easier. Most of the nymphs are hatched out and trout are looking to the surface more. Finally my favourite hatch the Isonychia shows up near the end of August and hangs around for a whole month.

I fish the Salmon near Chasm Falls/Titus. Usually runs in the low 60's this time of year. I like both branches of the Saranac. Usually the big south branch is too heavy to fish in spring.

I stopped posting my trips because it seemed nobody cared less other than yungflyfisher.

I haven't fished the Chateauguay this year after last years reported fish kill.

I care ganman... I care.

I stopped posting my trips because it seemed nobody cared less other than yungflyfisher.

As a newbie to fly fishing, I would be interested in some reports. These areas are no less a drive than Alqonquin Park and probably have better fishing.

Beachburger,

The fishing is great down there. We might have to organize an outing, though you'll need to pick up that 5wt first.

you'll need to pick up that 5wt first

That won't be a problem.

Thanks to all who responded. For my part, here's an update [with, by the time I have finished it, a whole bunch of narrative and a question or two].

Yesterday (Tuesday 14 August) at about 12:30 p.m., while sitting in my office, I decided to leave and go down to the Salmon and the Chateaugay.

The last time I was there was during that blow-out mentioned above. The time before that was about a week earlier with Michel.

I arrived at Fire Drill Hall on the Salmon at about 4:30 p.m. The water temperature was 71F. Water levels were about what I consider normal. I fished that one run that everyone seems to know and then the rapid and pool about 300 m upriver along the path. I used a smallish green weighted nymph (but not a bead-head -- it ended up drifting rather high), later a dry fly, and then later a medium-sized beadhead olive hare's ear [mental note -- learn hook sizes].

The net result was a handful of fall fish. This may not be an accurate indication of what was there: I have only been fly fishing since June of 2006 and, in any event, for much of the time there yesterday I was goofing around trying to approximate Czech nymphing and high-sticking with a 7-1/2 foot 3-weight with a long leader. I am conscious of the problems of fighting and excessively tiring larger fish on such a small rod and I do not want to do that. However, I have only ever caught small browns and rainbows there and I have become fixated on getting one small brown there on my 3-weight. Not yesterday.

I moved to the Sam Cook bridge on the Chateaugay, arriving at about 7:15 p.m. It surprised me to see that the water temperature was 64F. I thought the Salmon ran a bit colder than the Chateaguay. Is that not correct?

Nore more goofing around. This time it's the 5-weight.

A tree with its green leaves still on has fallen and covers about the upper half of the hole (or whatever the correct term is) under the bridge. My mission was to catch some trout with dry flies so I started farther downriver near the tail of that patch of fishable water. I tried an Adams and an Ausable Wulff, but no dice. They were rising all around me. I tried a smaller green and grey one (a Trico?), but still no dice.

I could not see what they were rising to. The only thing that I could make out near the water was one small white fly. Just before it got too dark to see, I put on a fairly small white dry. Still fish rising; still no fish for me.

For anyone still reading this thread who has any thoughts to share, what might have been the fly (or, of more interest, the fly to use)?

It was time to abandon that part of the mission and move to the last part: Make one of my early attempts to try some of what Joe Humphrey wrote about night fishing in his book. It was a modest attempt, with a sculpin. I soon realized that at least one split shot was required.

There was only one subtle nibble, that I missed. There was also one big pull. (At least big for me). Okay, he's on. Better reach behind for the net on the back of my vest. Where did it go? Must have lost it. Nope, it's still in the car. Right then, proceed without it. Splash splash splash. Pull pull pull. A giant brown at night to rival Mr. Humphrey's? Can't see. Play him a bit so you can land him by hand. Get him a bit closer and put on the red-filtered headlamp (a recent purchase from MEC to replace the old white light as an experiment in preserving night vision -- works very well for tying flies and preserving night vision, but still can't see the fish too well). Okay, he's beside you now and it's time to take him off. Pretty big (at least for me), but we won't be rivalling Mr. Humphrey just yet. But what kind? The red light makes his eyes look strange, like a walleye. Nope, it's a trout. Flip the red filter off and use the white light to see what kind. There is the rainbow colouring. One of those 15 to 19 - inchers that DEC discusses.

He's gently hooked in the top of his mouth. Remember, Manfred: Set the hook sideways, not up. Consider for a moment that he is surprisingly larger than than that fine butter-flyed and battered rainbow you had with that excellent Grand Marnier sauce at the Hungry Tout restaurant near Wilmington a couple of months ago, then send him on his merry way, healthy and happy...

I went back to the car for the net, fooled around for with the sculpin closer to the bridge for a while longer, and left the water at 10:15 p.m. With a stop at Wendy's I was back to Ottawa and in bed by 12:30 a.m. More trout would have been nice, but one reasonably-sized one provides enough satisfaction to feel good, and there is always room for improvement.

Regarding the improvement: set the hook sideways, get better drifts, try keeping somewhat less slack in the line in case some of those rises were actually to your fly when you could not see it, and perhaps be more serious with the 5-weight beadheaded nymph (or your favourite bead-head phesant-tail, or what else?) at Fire Drill Hall.

But what were those unseen flies at the Sam Cook bridge?

Great little report!

Water temps on the Chat. can vary I find... it is dam controlled higher up so that might have something to do with it? I don't know, but cooler is always nice.

As for those tiny white flies they were probably little white mayflies of some sort (i'm not that great with names). In any case some Trico patterns might have done the trick. But in that situation I tend to switch to an emerger if the natural dry doesn't seem to be tickling their fancy. Remember to try and see what type of rise it is and that will indicate to you what might be more successfull. If it's a splashy rise, chances are they are taking bugs from the surface. Howeer, if it's more subtle then perhaps they are taking the emerging insect as it comes out of it's nymph stage just in the surface of the film.

But, I mean, that will not always work. There's times when I just get fed up and put something on like a stimulator and that may yield one or two. If all else fails, well, that's why the wooly bugger was invented.

Sounds like a nice day out on the water in any case.

What towns are in the area of these rivers? I would like to get a general idea of where they are with Google maps.

TIA.....

Mr. Burger,

The Salmon River discussed here runs right through the village of Malone. The talk above about the areas upriver has made me curious, but most of my fishing has been downriver from Malone and upriver from Westville Center.

The Chateaugay runs near the village of the same name. It runs under Highway 11.

About a month ago, I had the same idea as you about looking for images of these rivers on Google Earth. The best reference to start with are the great maps found under "Public Fishing Rights" on the New York DEC website. Those maps show where public access is all along both rivers and several others. I wanted to use them as a reference to search for flats or pools on both rivers that might be good for dry flies in the evenings. I stopped because downloading Google Earth seemed like a hassle. However, if you do it and find images of any promising flats or pools, I would be grateful to hear about it.

I have been surfing the web for information on what emergers might be useful and how to fish them. Now back to that...

The Salmon above (south) of Malone is much colder. As far up as Chasm Falls it would be 10 degrees cooler than Westville Center. You will encounter fewer stocked trout upriver.

Anybody going fishing in northern NY needs a NY Topographical Atlas and Gazeteer.

http://www.amazon.com/New-York-Atlas-Ga ... 0899332757

Sells in Walmart for about $14. It is invaluable.

The flies you saw the other night were not Tricos....they hatch and fall in the morning. An emerger is just a modern word for a good old wet fly. Fish it near the surface with a dead drift and then let it swing in the current on a tight line.

Good call on the wet flies... I do enjoy swinging a P&O