Question on ATV

[Priorguy]

I don't have a trail pass nor do I really travel them. I am curious to know if their is any tax paying monies put into these trails. It would appear that all funding comes from trail passes only.

Maybe they should have family trail day like fishing... Now that would be neat!

Just curious that's all....

Priorguy!

[Joe28]

Thanks for the info


I found out that it is complicated law between MNR and OFSC when in court. Yes I can but under certain condition that I’m on my way to that fishing hole and I do not have any other way but through there. I do need an outdoor card and a rod with me.

I said to him Where can I find this in the law book and he said never. In the eyes of the courts they use crown land law not OFSC law

Permits or licences required to carry out certain activities on Crown land.


I gave up asking. I will try it and see what come of it.

This makes no sense at all. As a Canadian you can basically go where you want to... alot of the OFSC "trails" are just normal roads in the bush that they use that are created and maintained by taxpayers. You are in fact allowed to use these roads at all times unless they are private regardless of your method of transportation. A trail made by the OFSC would be considered private. For example, when an OFSC trail connects with a legitamate road you need not worry. In fact, the OFSC should thank you because you as a taxpayer help them out by somehwat paying for their connecting trail. Alot of roads have the OFSC sign... that doesn't mean you can't go on them.

[Jimmy_1]

Use at your peril.
I have spoken to alot of trail monitors on this situation.

Basically the monitor can either fine you, or if they agree it is reasonable and you are not damaging the trails they may allow it.

This isn't to say that the next time your caught a different monitor will have the same view.

But to say you can go anywhere you want is a misguided statement.
Are you walking the trail? No problems so long as it is public areas.

Like I said...GET A MAP!!!!

Then you know for sure if it is private or public.

I don't see why this has become such a huge debate!? There are alot of lakes you can ice fish on that you don't need to go on a sled trail to access it.
If your sooooo stuck in your ways,you don't care if you get fined, and you have time to spend in court fighting the fine(s) then by all means be my guest!

[Joe28]

When the OFSC uses regular roads as a trail then its ok to travel on them even if there is an OFSC sign every ten feet. Its not ok to go on 'private OFSC' trails.

Many, many parts of the OFSC trails are just normal roads that they use. They DO NOT suddenly become private snowmobile trails once winter rolls around.

And you do not need a reason to be going to a lake. Or anywhere really. And for sure, nobody in a snowmobile club has the right to demand your business in the area if you're on an actual road that the OFSC thinks is theirs.

[Jimmy_1]

As the Ontario Ministry of Transport hands the trails over to the OFSC they may disagree with you.

Roads that connect to the OFSC trails are open to all. But the ORIGINAL question was could you use an OFSC trail to get to a lake.

If you ride several miles down an OFSC trail you MAY get fined....

I'm not here to argue with you. As I said it would be at the discretion of the trail monitor to fine you or not.

I never said you would or wouldn't be fined. I'd just err on the side of caution..

[Priorguy]

Well.. my question about taxes got answered. If we as rate payers put money in the upkeep of these connecting roads then I would think it our right that we are entitled to use them. Again provided you are going to a lake and not traveling on private farmland or other as an afternoon adventure.

Interesting to also learn that tax monies is used to police these trails. I have a friend who is involved with this stuff as a civilian and he told me they take very good care of him when asked to work away from home. Hotel, meal, fuel and the whole thing is paid through the policing and not OFSC. I guess it is well spent tax money. I can't remember getting a card in the mail like school taxes to make a choice. Sounds like someone did this for me.

[Joe28]

As the Ontario Ministry of Transport hands the trails over to the OFSC they may disagree with you.

Roads that connect to the OFSC trails are open to all. But the ORIGINAL question was could you use an OFSC trail to get to a lake.

If you ride several miles down an OFSC trail you MAY get fined....

I'm not here to argue with you. As I said it would be at the discretion of the trail monitor to fine you or not.

I never said you would or wouldn't be fined. I'd just err on the side of caution..

Alot of OFSC trails are just roads. They don't hand over that much road. You are still allowed to travel down most roads that may have OFSC signs on them regardless of what you're driving. So, it may appear to be an OFSC trail with signs everywhere but it may in fact just be a road that they use.

And its an absolute waste of taxpayers money to fund OFSC related activities. Its a lot of fun but the money should be spent on other things...

[Jimmy_1]

I disagree with you Joe,

Its not a waste of money at all.

When you think about it people pay good money for Sleds and for their upkeep. This in turn means small engine mechanics and small engine marine's stay in business.

If there were no place to ride it would take a hit out of their pockets and thus less taxes would be paid by them.

So in essence it is a good thing.

Now there are backroads that have OFSC signs on it. This is just for people to know if they are still on the trail or not.

But I don't think that is the original question. Obviously a dirt road that goes to a lake would most likely have a launch. Meaning open to the public.

But I think some of these "roads" are indeed private property once you look at a map. I know a few of the trails up by Snow Road are indeed private property but do look like public dirt roads.

All I am saying is to be careful.

[RJ]

Agree to disagree fellas....sounds like we may need to get our negotiation skills sharpened up if we get stopped...

What I've always been told is as long as you are in transit to ice fish with gear you can use the trails.....now...if you are in Richmond and going ice fishing in Calabogie....they're gonna call BS on that one...

RJ

[troutnmuskiehunter]

I finally found the news article that I cut out and put away for when I want to head to one of the trout lakes with my ATV on Crown Land using an OFSC trail....The article clarifies the use of OFSC trails if the intention is to go angling...

I scanned a copy for you guys but you'll have to click on the jpeg to enlargen it....

If anyone wants a full sized copy, pm me...

[Todd B.]

TMH,

If you read the artile you clipped out carefully it is with respect to having a valid OFSC trail permit.

1. It is applicable only to "snow machines", which (to my knowledge) do not include ATVs.
2. You still cannot travel on OFSC trails that are on private property.

[Jimmy_1]

Todd,

This was the confusion.

Any "trail" on Crown land is open to anyone. Horse, ATV etc.
Private OFSC trails are not for anything other than sleds.

In Almonte the OFSC trail runs on a side street. In front of some people's homes!
I can say that there is NO WAY a trail cop will fine me for ATV'ing in front of my house. OFSC trail or not!

But if I go into the woods (private property) now I can be. Not only am I on OFSC trails using an ATV I am also tresspassing and can be liable to Police laid charges.

Keep in mind folks the sledder's are allowed on private property with special permission (trail pass). Without a trail pass you can be fined and/or charged.

But Steve this is a good tidbit of info thanks! I say that sincerely as not all trail cops know how to handle "crown land" riders.

J

[troutnmuskiehunter]

TMH,

If you read the artile you clipped out carefully it is with respect to having a valid OFSC trail permit.

1. It is applicable only to "snow machines", which (to my knowledge) do not include ATVs.
2. You still cannot travel on OFSC trails that are on private property.

Todd.....you DO NOT need a valid OFSC trail permit if you are traveling on Crown Land or public land...that is what this article is about....there is an exemption from the requirement to have and display a trail pass if you meet the requirements stated in the article....

Jamsers,

A few of my buddies in the Ompah area have produced this article to show to trial wardens when they were stopped on the way trout fishing using ATVs on the "power line" trail....after reading the clipping, they were permitted to go ahead to the lake they were going to....

I've never had issues either...If the day ever comes that I do get citied, and lose my case in court, then I guess I'll have to revert to trailering my Polaris up to the areas I fish for trout

[cprince]

Todd,

This was the confusion.

Any "trail" on Crown land is open to anyone. Horse, ATV etc.
Private OFSC trails are not for anything other than sleds.

In Almonte the OFSC trail runs on a side street. In front of some people's homes!
I can say that there is NO WAY a trail cop will fine me for ATV'ing in front of my house. OFSC trail or not!

But if I go into the woods (private property) now I can be. Not only am I on OFSC trails using an ATV I am also tresspassing and can be liable to Police laid charges.

Keep in mind folks the sledder's are allowed on private property with special permission (trail pass). Without a trail pass you can be fined and/or charged.

But Steve this is a good tidbit of info thanks! I say that sincerely as not all trail cops know how to handle "crown land" riders.

J

Slight deviation to this great topic... (Very interesting read BTW and an example to all members on how to have a civil discussion when some parties DO NOT agree! Well done!!!!!!)

Is there a place where I can find detailed maps of Crown Land? I have many maps... but none of them distinguish between Crown/Private/Public lands...

TIA!


Craig

[Todd B.]

TMH,

The issue is really what an ATV is considered. The exemption was for motorized snow vehicles, which under the Ontario Motorized Snow Vehicle act is defined as:

“motorized snow vehicle” means a self-propelled vehicle designed to be driven primarily on snow; (“motoneige”)

Unfortunately ATVs fall outside of this definition.