Sorry ya asked now?...
And MCI members wonder why....oh nevermind... Go to one of Kert's meetings in Arnprior...HE is the only reason I joined last year...
Good Luck in your pursuit...we live in a world class fishery....enjoy it...
RJ
Muskie
Hi Matt, I think Marc may have been referring to the reason why there was a position available in the first place, not your volunteering.
My criticisms of the club mostly stem from their lobbying the MNR to remove some existing fishing rights without anything to back up their position except for a few assumptions and a lot of stereotyping. If it was PETA proposing the same reg changes I'm sure everyone would be outraged.
Matt, I may be "barking up a tree" but the club is "flogging a dead horse". And for as long as it takes to show people the hypocrisy of the club's proposed tournament regulations I will be barking.
And as always, I will ask you or anyone else from Muskies Canada to come on here and explain why they are trying to regulate tournaments that don't exist. And then show the evidence as to why tournament regs are needed for tournaments that don't exist. There's a lot of back scratching that goes on between MCI and MNR. Sounds more like a make-work project for their buddies in the MNR. I can't see any other reasons why regs would need to be set up for tournaments that do not exist.
My criticisms of the club mostly stem from their lobbying the MNR to remove some existing fishing rights without anything to back up their position except for a few assumptions and a lot of stereotyping. If it was PETA proposing the same reg changes I'm sure everyone would be outraged.
Matt, I may be "barking up a tree" but the club is "flogging a dead horse". And for as long as it takes to show people the hypocrisy of the club's proposed tournament regulations I will be barking.
And as always, I will ask you or anyone else from Muskies Canada to come on here and explain why they are trying to regulate tournaments that don't exist. And then show the evidence as to why tournament regs are needed for tournaments that don't exist. There's a lot of back scratching that goes on between MCI and MNR. Sounds more like a make-work project for their buddies in the MNR. I can't see any other reasons why regs would need to be set up for tournaments that do not exist.
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wishin I was Fishin
- Participant
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:10 pm
- Location: pembroke
This is for anyone who may be thinking about joining MCI
I joined MCI to be part of a group who like to fish the same fish as I, to meet people , learn some techniques and for many other positive reasons.
So far I have got all that and more, I have met some fantastic people and reached a point where I wanted to be more involved and give something back.
It has been most enjoyable so far.
I have seen some road bumps and heard some negative comments and critisizm of the club. With anything in daily life there will be some for and some who disagree.
I would ask anyone who may be thinking about joining to not judge MCI by what has been said here, it really is a great club.
On that note some have a personal vendeta against the club and for that reason I will no longer be posting any MCI comments ,adgendas, etc.on Fish-Hawk anymore as I do not wish to use the public forum to air the dirty laundry.
I apologise to FH and it's members , but I anwered this thread only to give info to a person who asked .....no other reason.
Matt
I joined MCI to be part of a group who like to fish the same fish as I, to meet people , learn some techniques and for many other positive reasons.
So far I have got all that and more, I have met some fantastic people and reached a point where I wanted to be more involved and give something back.
It has been most enjoyable so far.
I have seen some road bumps and heard some negative comments and critisizm of the club. With anything in daily life there will be some for and some who disagree.
I would ask anyone who may be thinking about joining to not judge MCI by what has been said here, it really is a great club.
On that note some have a personal vendeta against the club and for that reason I will no longer be posting any MCI comments ,adgendas, etc.on Fish-Hawk anymore as I do not wish to use the public forum to air the dirty laundry.
I apologise to FH and it's members , but I anwered this thread only to give info to a person who asked .....no other reason.
Matt
Matt, I don't have a personal vendetta. I only want to preserve our fishing rights. The MNR already has tools for regulating the fishery (ie. size limits, bag limits, closed seasons, etc. I quit MCI to protest the club's attempts at removing some existing fishing rights. I have often said that MCI has done some very helpful things for the fishery....mostly in regards to their volunteering man-hours to help the MNR and other groups. However, being a member of MCI does not qualify a person to write proposed fisheries regulations.
Sorry you would rather walk away than face the facts. But it seems like thats what you guys do when ever you are asked to publicly comment on the data and evidence that supports your regs proposals. I would think that the club would at least have some scientific data or some statistics on the anglers who they are trying to regulate before writing up their proposed regs changes. Please, let's see the info.
Sorry you would rather walk away than face the facts. But it seems like thats what you guys do when ever you are asked to publicly comment on the data and evidence that supports your regs proposals. I would think that the club would at least have some scientific data or some statistics on the anglers who they are trying to regulate before writing up their proposed regs changes. Please, let's see the info.
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marc Thorpe
- Bronze Participant
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:34 am
Matt,you seemed offenced by response
Maybe telling the truthful reason why you have that position and circumstances leading to it would ease you conscience
My message is clear and positive ,I believe in Kurt
He'd I be a positive influence on you
No I did not do like you when I was starting in mci
I did not tell people how good it is or tell them how wrong they were!
Matt I showed em ,with respect to members and non members
I protected all my members and the public from rogue members
I respected the views of others on the organization,they just like you based views on what they knew
I learned how it was
what it was and what it is Are 2 different things
You need leadership for things to change
On the side lines,Dude
I've always been invloved in conservation whether there is a banner over my head or not
Thing is they are other conservation organization that have an impact at the present time which my effort are appreciated
Why because simply the fish and the interest of all is whats important to me,not just muskies
Need not worry,I put up a good wall for them to climb every so often also
Matt your in it for doing good.dont defend the wrong doings of others
In life we must face the truth ,although I realize this is the Era of non accoutability
I just dont live that way,my view wether it be in the interest or not of MCI or any other conservation organization is my view and I base my view on Truthful experience and prolongued involvement and the truthful interest of all,it is my right to share my expereience
When the builders leave,I ask myself why,in recent years You and I know why
Just so you know,voting does not give you the right to complain about politicians.
So far that right has only led us to getting Bamboozeled by Politicians no matter which party you waste your time voting for
Being Canadian and a Canadian Tax Payer gives me this right
Matt when you walked the road I have and built the stones I have,you have the right to look back and make sure what you built does not get ruined.
If you think I dont have that right,I made sure you had the right to keep the organization alive.
MCI turned its back on many good people because it failed to respect the good they had done and allowed self interest of others to self propagate
Did you not get your position through this kind of circumstance?
When you mature from within,you will progress with the interest of all once again
You'll understand one day
Matt,Chris stated his view,which are his right,whether a member or non member
My response was you going at Chris for stating his opposition to certain goals or involvements MCI is in,It is his right as I recall?
Seems as if any angler makes a mistake or speaks about catching muskies in a supposed MCI un-ethical way or through the ice and someone comes galloping in to insult the angler whom is unknowingly in-experienced or seeking information
Matt,you know why we ended up in trouble,because we did things behind closed doors for years in which we hid the truth from our members and the public and allowed diss-respect towards the public and its members to propagate.
To me this is diss-honesty of what you funadmentaly represent
The organization has done good and will continue to do good,how much it will accomplish depends on the involvement of members.
To get involved one must feel secure,appreciated and respected
Matt your response is a prime example of what MCI lacks
Guys like Kurt have these essential elements
Once again,take no offence to the sharing of my experience,hopefully it will lead to positive changes from within
I dont flaunt my experience,I use it in the best interest of all and to protect those I consider to be genuinly good people
If thats wrong,so be it
Small fry,evidently you live in a world where people are separted by class,I see all as equivalent
What most dissapointing, you and certain other members dont hide from criticizing other anglers but when it falls upon your belief,then its not fair
Evidently I am not on the sidelines but an Obstacle of truth
Be well
Marc
Maybe telling the truthful reason why you have that position and circumstances leading to it would ease you conscience
My message is clear and positive ,I believe in Kurt
He'd I be a positive influence on you
No I did not do like you when I was starting in mci
I did not tell people how good it is or tell them how wrong they were!
Matt I showed em ,with respect to members and non members
I protected all my members and the public from rogue members
I respected the views of others on the organization,they just like you based views on what they knew
I learned how it was
what it was and what it is Are 2 different things
You need leadership for things to change
On the side lines,Dude
I've always been invloved in conservation whether there is a banner over my head or not
Thing is they are other conservation organization that have an impact at the present time which my effort are appreciated
Why because simply the fish and the interest of all is whats important to me,not just muskies
Need not worry,I put up a good wall for them to climb every so often also
Matt your in it for doing good.dont defend the wrong doings of others
In life we must face the truth ,although I realize this is the Era of non accoutability
I just dont live that way,my view wether it be in the interest or not of MCI or any other conservation organization is my view and I base my view on Truthful experience and prolongued involvement and the truthful interest of all,it is my right to share my expereience
When the builders leave,I ask myself why,in recent years You and I know why
Just so you know,voting does not give you the right to complain about politicians.
So far that right has only led us to getting Bamboozeled by Politicians no matter which party you waste your time voting for
Being Canadian and a Canadian Tax Payer gives me this right
Matt when you walked the road I have and built the stones I have,you have the right to look back and make sure what you built does not get ruined.
If you think I dont have that right,I made sure you had the right to keep the organization alive.
MCI turned its back on many good people because it failed to respect the good they had done and allowed self interest of others to self propagate
Did you not get your position through this kind of circumstance?
When you mature from within,you will progress with the interest of all once again
You'll understand one day
Matt,Chris stated his view,which are his right,whether a member or non member
My response was you going at Chris for stating his opposition to certain goals or involvements MCI is in,It is his right as I recall?
Seems as if any angler makes a mistake or speaks about catching muskies in a supposed MCI un-ethical way or through the ice and someone comes galloping in to insult the angler whom is unknowingly in-experienced or seeking information
Matt,you know why we ended up in trouble,because we did things behind closed doors for years in which we hid the truth from our members and the public and allowed diss-respect towards the public and its members to propagate.
To me this is diss-honesty of what you funadmentaly represent
The organization has done good and will continue to do good,how much it will accomplish depends on the involvement of members.
To get involved one must feel secure,appreciated and respected
Matt your response is a prime example of what MCI lacks
Guys like Kurt have these essential elements
Once again,take no offence to the sharing of my experience,hopefully it will lead to positive changes from within
I dont flaunt my experience,I use it in the best interest of all and to protect those I consider to be genuinly good people
If thats wrong,so be it
Small fry,evidently you live in a world where people are separted by class,I see all as equivalent
What most dissapointing, you and certain other members dont hide from criticizing other anglers but when it falls upon your belief,then its not fair
Evidently I am not on the sidelines but an Obstacle of truth
Be well
Marc
muskymatt wrote:Marc..I got this position because I volunteered , and wanted to be more involved.marc Thorpe wrote:Well Matt,maybe you can share with us how you got your position and why?
I think someone quit because of a Natinal executive member?
How many years was the with the organization?
I think he was someone's right hand man?
Young Man,I once told ya,dont meddle into things you are un-informed of
You got some maturity and expereince at conservation to gather before you fire off at those that paved the road for you
Old man,there is some good in MCI,although many of the doers have left,I suspect they will return when things mature somewhat from within the organization.
You will gain valuable experience and knowledge in proper handling.Being very familliar with all chapters and at the time the doers,Kert Lavigne from Arnprior still has the spirit and essentials for making interesting meetings.
The basic fundamental values of what he offers are the essentials that made MCI
As I have said before .....
Marc unless you were born with the second to none experience with muskie you have and flaunt then you should not be so quick to critizise the up and new comer...as you were surely in a postion where you too were climbing the muskie ladder.
As I said Marc with time comes acquired knowledge, I may not have the background that you do , but I am here ,learning , helping , concerned and involved.
I haven't turned my back on MCI only to sit on the sidelines and critizise those who are in a position I was once in before.
MCI is a great organization with excellent intentions and as in politics, Marc, if you don't go to the voting polls you have no right to complain on the outcome of the election.
One question. Why would you even feel the need to respond to a comment from a small fry like me??? No big fish listening anymore???
Matt
Last edited by marc Thorpe on Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mustgetalunge
- Participant
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:50 pm
- Location: dorchester,ontario
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Trophymuskie
- Gold Participant
- Posts: 1023
- Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 12:00 pm
- Location: Ottawa River
- Contact:
Bla bal bla all this talking with nothing to say. Seems like a lot of people are living on earsay, it's a shame that some folks only come out here to cause trouble. maybe someone should bring up the respect tread.
ChrisS I've told you before that you are wrong, the top scientist when it comes to muskies ( Dr, Casselman ) as well as the top MNR guy when it comes to muskies ( Stere Kerr ) as well as another top scientits ( Br. Bruce Tuffs ) the guy responsible for the latest bass tournament releasing techniques used by many of the biggest tournaments were a big part of the process.
As well regulating tournaments isn't taking anybody's rights away.
ChrisS I've told you before that you are wrong, the top scientist when it comes to muskies ( Dr, Casselman ) as well as the top MNR guy when it comes to muskies ( Stere Kerr ) as well as another top scientits ( Br. Bruce Tuffs ) the guy responsible for the latest bass tournament releasing techniques used by many of the biggest tournaments were a big part of the process.
As well regulating tournaments isn't taking anybody's rights away.
Catch and release them all
Richard Collin
Richard Collin
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marc Thorpe
- Bronze Participant
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:34 am
Richard,would it be possible to share this study that led to the proposal which in true light will infringe on every other species in competitive angling events?
Just to be clear,I've read and gathered what is in true nature the variables that will have a negative impact from competitive events, but no study exists on muskellunge .
It was also stated by Gary Martin Head CO that due to trophy length limits imposed on Ontario waters that these events could not be held on such resources because it would be a violation of restrainement with intent to gain from sub legal fish. In essence no need for regulating,the trophy water class self regulates such events,they cant have em
I am still interested and the public should be alllowed to view the research or documents that lead to the proposal in which was submited?
Saying they did research,well a case must be placed forth to propose such regulations?
I've read every thing I could on competitive angling,I'd like to see and everyne should see what led you to conclusion that would suggest such a proposal?
be well
marc
Just to be clear,I've read and gathered what is in true nature the variables that will have a negative impact from competitive events, but no study exists on muskellunge .
It was also stated by Gary Martin Head CO that due to trophy length limits imposed on Ontario waters that these events could not be held on such resources because it would be a violation of restrainement with intent to gain from sub legal fish. In essence no need for regulating,the trophy water class self regulates such events,they cant have em
I am still interested and the public should be alllowed to view the research or documents that lead to the proposal in which was submited?
Saying they did research,well a case must be placed forth to propose such regulations?
I've read every thing I could on competitive angling,I'd like to see and everyne should see what led you to conclusion that would suggest such a proposal?
be well
marc
beer
Sooooooo....
On a lighter note who's goin' to the Odysee
I'll buy the first round
On a lighter note who's goin' to the Odysee
I'll buy the first round
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Trophymuskie
- Gold Participant
- Posts: 1023
- Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 12:00 pm
- Location: Ottawa River
- Contact:
Marc you know as well as I that we don't need a study to tell us it can't be good for any fisheries. Maybe it's just common sense but I don't need a study to tell me that pressure and overhandling can't be good for the muskies. You have the money and resources for all the needed studies? MCI does a tonne already but we can't do everything that can be imagined.
Maybe you talked to much with that WMT guy, he almost had me convinced in buying a boat with a big livewell so I can take all my fish for a spin around the lake before I release them because it was much better for them then immediate water release.
Crusty I'll hold you up to that.
Maybe you talked to much with that WMT guy, he almost had me convinced in buying a boat with a big livewell so I can take all my fish for a spin around the lake before I release them because it was much better for them then immediate water release.
Crusty I'll hold you up to that.
Catch and release them all
Richard Collin
Richard Collin
The world we live in eh!
Old Man, may I speak as a novice here, who joined MCI last year in Arnprior. My first Muskie was a bit of a horror story, Ill prepaired, wrong tackle, inexperienced in netting etc etc. A majestic 45" muskie went back into the water to survive but I am not sure this would have been the case in high summer. This led me to taking a charter, which helped a bit, but then I joined MCI. Politics aside, if you want to get into this side of the sport then MCI is the place to start. In a year I have learned a few techniques to help catch and how to handle the fish once at the boat - more importantly how not to. You get to have a beer and chat with a few more experienced and accomplished anglers and listen to some great speakers. I have never been preached to or bombasted for mistakes I have made. All question have been answered, except where that "X" is on my map .
On the conservation side, I believe all membes are dedicated to muskie but obviously some opinions may differ. Fishing is a passionate sport and we have seen some passion on this post. Come along tonight to Arnprior tonight and any fears planted by this post will be laid to rest.
Ady
Old Man, may I speak as a novice here, who joined MCI last year in Arnprior. My first Muskie was a bit of a horror story, Ill prepaired, wrong tackle, inexperienced in netting etc etc. A majestic 45" muskie went back into the water to survive but I am not sure this would have been the case in high summer. This led me to taking a charter, which helped a bit, but then I joined MCI. Politics aside, if you want to get into this side of the sport then MCI is the place to start. In a year I have learned a few techniques to help catch and how to handle the fish once at the boat - more importantly how not to. You get to have a beer and chat with a few more experienced and accomplished anglers and listen to some great speakers. I have never been preached to or bombasted for mistakes I have made. All question have been answered, except where that "X" is on my map .
On the conservation side, I believe all membes are dedicated to muskie but obviously some opinions may differ. Fishing is a passionate sport and we have seen some passion on this post. Come along tonight to Arnprior tonight and any fears planted by this post will be laid to rest.Ady
Richard:
Now Richard, can you name just one cash tournament for muskies that took place in Canada last year? Can you name just one that will take place in Canada this year? There used to be an annual cash tournament on the Kawarthas a few years back and guess what. There were several MCI members that fished it every year including the president at the time Ian Smith. Ian told me himself that the tournament was run very well with very little if any harm done to the muskies. That tournament ended because a participant cried foul. That participant was a member of MCI. Pretty convenient way to tarnish a well-run tournament, don't you think??? Now MCI members were claiming back in '99 when I joined the club that "the big cash tournaments were on their way to Canada". And the common sense phrase of the day was "it's not a matter of if, but when". Well, here we are, almost 10 years later, and guess what. Not even a hint of a cash tournament in Canada. Guess your famous "common sense" was wrong then, maybe it's wrong now.
Just so everyone is aware, it has also been suggested in the MCI Release Journal that members should also start to look at pushing for more reg changes including, tighter restrictions on use of live bait for muskies, tighter restrictions on the allowable number of hook points, restrictions on some bodies of water, tighter equipment regs, etc.
Ahhhh, finally an admission that you DON'T HAVE ANY DATA backing your position. This is the reckless lobbying for regs changes that I am talking about. Besides, there is no pressure and overhandling because there are no muskie tournaments, other than the 10+ held by Muskies Canada members each and every year.Marc you know as well as I that we don't need a study to tell us it can't be good for any fisheries. Maybe it's just common sense but I don't need a study to tell me that pressure and overhandling can't be good for the muskies.
Now Richard, can you name just one cash tournament for muskies that took place in Canada last year? Can you name just one that will take place in Canada this year? There used to be an annual cash tournament on the Kawarthas a few years back and guess what. There were several MCI members that fished it every year including the president at the time Ian Smith. Ian told me himself that the tournament was run very well with very little if any harm done to the muskies. That tournament ended because a participant cried foul. That participant was a member of MCI. Pretty convenient way to tarnish a well-run tournament, don't you think??? Now MCI members were claiming back in '99 when I joined the club that "the big cash tournaments were on their way to Canada". And the common sense phrase of the day was "it's not a matter of if, but when". Well, here we are, almost 10 years later, and guess what. Not even a hint of a cash tournament in Canada. Guess your famous "common sense" was wrong then, maybe it's wrong now.
Just so everyone is aware, it has also been suggested in the MCI Release Journal that members should also start to look at pushing for more reg changes including, tighter restrictions on use of live bait for muskies, tighter restrictions on the allowable number of hook points, restrictions on some bodies of water, tighter equipment regs, etc.
Last edited by ChrisS on Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ady:
I don't believe I have challenged any club member's dedication to muskie, and if you are questioning my dedication to muskies you may want to ask around to see what I've done in the past as a member. As far as any fears about this post being laid to rest, Oldman, please go to the meeting and ask the club what data they have regarding the mortality of tournament caught fish compared to the mortality of recreational angler caught fish. I gaurantee they won't have any. Sure, you will get a lot of assumptions and speculation, a bit of smoke and mirrors, and you will certainly get a stereotyped version of tournament anglers. But you won't get any data.On the conservation side, I believe all membes are dedicated to muskie but obviously some opinions may differ. Fishing is a passionate sport and we have seen some passion on this post. Come along tonight to Arnprior tonight and any fears planted by this post will be laid to rest.