Musky Slaughter in Maine

[slushpuppy]

almost half of the river above Mactaquac is part of the border, I would not consider that to be very little. There is also a 75ft falls topped by a dam and another hydro dam between there and Fort Kent. If the largest muskie are below those, I don't think they're looking hard enough further north. Remember, the musky was introduced above those.

My point in all these discussions is, don't try to force your values of a fishery on other parts of the country that may have other values and especially don't treat them like idiots. There's been enough "I know better than you so I'm gonna educate you" coming from other states/provinces to fill a landfill site. Some of the waters in that part of the country are world-renowned for Atlantic salmon. They will never be world-renowned for their musky, leave that to Lake-of-the-Woods or wherever.

[Lookinforlunkers]

I may just be ignorant but I don't understand why the government has to mess with nature at all? Won't Mothernature take care of herself if she was left alone? If there is a shortage of, or if a species is nearing extinction could'nt they just close the season until it replenishes itself? In my area they released Cougars to control the Deer herd and when one started showing up at residance with children they denied ever doing it and say that Cougars don't excist in the area. The guy that shot it in his backyard will tell ya different

[trapperdirk]

The thing I see is way too many anglers lining up against other anglers who fish different species . The Musky guys don't give a rats arse about any other species and the bass guys etc do the same .

What makes any species above harvesting for the table especially ones that are not on their way to extinction . Sure a wise harvesting of any species must be done but who cares as in this case it happens to be Musky . I catch and release many species including musky but I have absolutely no qualms about sitting down and feasting on one . The people of Maine don't want them and I will not sit in judgement of them . There are better CAUSES than this to worry about when its regarding our fisheries . At least these people are not wasting them by letting them rot in nets or throwing them up on the bank .

Just last year there was a reasonably high outcry of the waste of fish including muskies rotting in nets up on LOW . How many of these Musky lovers became involved in battling this waste . I sure don't recall many and yet I was one .

Now on the other hand they are here looking for support to stop a derby where fish are being eaten . This to me is more so hypocritical when I see it .

I have met many folks who are against the harvest of a renewable resource in my day and my fair share of so called bucket biologists and even though they have their mind set to do good they in fact are so busy separating themselves from each other by being cause specific, ( by species) that they end up just hurting angling as a whole .

The same goes for hunters . If its not a species they hunt then they just don't care about those that do hunt them and in fact some even create problems for those in areas where these animals are harvested .

My business is not in Maine because I don't see waste happening but it is in areas where waste such as the rotting of fish in nets that have been negligently abandoned etc is of ongoing concern . I worry about those muskies,pike,walleye,bass etc there.

TD

[muskymatt]

Td
I would hope that most people can make a connection between a collapse of one species and (depleated #'s or increased #'s ) of another. Respect for the whole circle of life in our lakes and rivers!! Thus having some repect for all fish!!


I was unaware of the situation on low , thats pretty sad !!

However some times it takes outsiders to point out your mistakes or potential mistakes , I believe that Muskie are the only commercially fished fish on the Ott. river .
And during the 40's -50's their #'s crashed ,almost to the non recovery point . Only now are we starting to see increased #'s of throphy fish .

personally , I think it would be a mistake to try to get rid of a species in any lake or river.

Although they do have the right and apparantly just cause . It's just painfull to see

[Trophymuskie]

The thing I see is way too many anglers lining up against other anglers who fish different species . The Musky guys don't give a rats arse about any other species and the bass guys etc do the same .

Man you can never be more wrong, muskie anglers do more for other species then any other groups out there. Maybe it's because we know the importance of the entire ecosystem. You never hear of muskie guys killing bass or walleyes or whatever else they may accidently catch. The opposite can be said when it comes to bass and walleye guys.

Just last year there was a reasonably high outcry of the waste of fish including muskies rotting in nets up on LOW . How many of these Musky lovers became involved in battling this waste . I sure don't recall many and yet I was one .

Once again you cannot be more wrong, muskie guys are probably the only ones caring about the excessive netting waste on LOTW. And we are still trying our best to find a solution to the problem. And it won't be fixed anytime soon as we are talking about native nets.

Every year Muskies Canada has a meeting in the MNR offices in Peteborough to discuss different important matters as well as projects that we are working with the MNR. At last spring's meeting we had a presentation from the leading MNR lawyer when it comes to native issues and he basicly explained to us how all the treaties work ect ect. Because of those treaties they are very limited as to what they can do to stop the waste.

I don't know what it is, maybe it has something to do as to why some of us get taken over by muskies. But that same thing is what makes us more involved or caring, ellitis whatever you want to call us.

[dana]

> muskie guys are probably the only ones caring about...

_ _ _ _ _ _ fill in blank.Gods self proclaimed gift to fishing.

i think muskie guys are ok...
[though albeit sanctimonioius, and selfrighteous]

lol

you muskie guys paint everyone else with the same brush huh?
sorry dude there are "other" peoploe out there who care..

my quote:
**i don't fish for muskie because i care for em...**

and don't really enjoy the stress even bringin em in fast
on heavy line has on em....they get so
wussy and upset!!
a bass comes i ..looks at yah an says..well!!!~
release me..
a muskie gets all tired and upset
even if yah gerthim in under a minute

again you Muskie guys are ok.
Just please,when you are out there
in muskie heaven
remember... there are some almost ok non muskie guys out there

wB

[Relic]

No idea why all the bad blood for us muskie anglers. I think the last few post are little bit prejudice. Do all trappers live in the bush, never shave or shower and eat nothing but raw beaver Please do not pass judgment on us until you have met every single muskie angler out there. Not only am I passionate about muskies, but I also have a soft spot for, walleyes, smallies, stellies, ect. ect .ect. All the fish I catch get the same love and care as a 50" muskie. The muskie is no more important than any of these fish as they all have there place. Unfortunatley muskies do not have a place in Maine. They are an invasive species to them, the same way gobies are to us. What do you do when you catch a Goby You kill it right. Though I don't like to see all these dead muskies it is not our place to pass judgment, the people of Maine can do what they please with their own lakes and rivers. The muskie may not be eating the salmon or trout but they do eat/compete for the same food, perch,minnows ect. The pie gets smaller for all the native fish. I see it here to, the catfish population boomed and the wallies and smallmouths declined, these things happen.

Forcing our values and morales on other people or places, is a BIG problem in our world. Look what goes on with goverments around the globe, they start war's trying to do just this. Don't go stickin your nose in places it don't belong to begin with.

Jonathan

[wolfe]

Well said, Relic, (though I don't agree 100% with you) and I guess I'm not getting the hostility in some of the posts, but then it's the same old sad pattern.

Anyway, I won't be cowed into the mentality that conservation is a dirty word.

I'm glad Trex brought this to my attention; because this is my own country and I didn't know it was going on.

Thx, Trexellunge, and to the others who are participating and exchanging mature points of views and differing opinions in a respective light, it's definitely educational.

W.

[Wall-I-Guy]

Just have to....


Relic....Exactly

[scttsmpsn]

LFL, in some cases it may not be the fishermen who are depleting the salmon numbers so closing the season will not have a heavy impact. The negative impact is coming from an non-native species.

Maybe the muskie have bee naround these parts for 20 years but that is besides the point if they weren't supposed to be there in the firs tplace. Mother nature isn't taking it's course because man interfered. Damn them humans!

I know it's a tough pill to swallow because you guys are muskie folk but you have to look at the bigger picture.

Scott

[trapperdirk]

A few elitest type comments for sure . That's exactly why Musky Canada and such organizations are often frowned upon because the whole snobbish attitude turns people off . You are definately not ones that care more for our fisheries than anyone else and if you did get involved with LOTW issue last year it sure must have been in a johnny come lately capacity because I know most of the folks that became actively involved and brought it up so that it became a newscast etc. on CBC after contact was made with Gord Ellis .

What makes a musky anymore special than any other fish so that he shouldn't be used for table fare . ? They get old and big but there are others that get older and bigger . They are not extremely rare fish like sturgeon . They may not inhabit every body of water in the land but there are other species that don't either .

I'm not against muskies or Muskies Canada or the anglers of them, but I am against the attitude portrayed by many of that fraternity because they seem to have the idea that eating a musky is some kind of sacrilege and that anyone who does eat them should burn in the fires of hell .

And now they want a public outcry because the people of Maine don't want muskies in their pristine trout and salmon waters and are holding a derby where the mighty musky is eaten . Well I'm sorry musky elite. I can't conform to that thought train because it's not for me to meddle in those waters of Maine for the sake of some muskies being eaten . I'm thinking Maine knows whats best for Maine and not one we should become involved in because if the truth were known alot of the states conservation practices today have a proven track record much better than ours . They also have less to work with and a higher population base using the resource that has recovered from almost total depletion to what it is now . I sure don't see that in Ontario and its too bad . Leave the folks of Maine to look after their own and worry about ourselves in our own back yard first before you start preaching .

TD

[Trophymuskie]

I don't know about Johnny come lately but we have been on it since 2004. I don't have time to look it up but I can tell you it was all over the Muskie message boards back in 2004.

I have e-mail exchanges with the guys leading the charge like Gord Ellis and Doug Johnson a muskie guide of all things. But need time to find it.

I'm off to TO in less then an hour.

BTW great post Relic I too agree well almost 100%, still not sure if the slaughter is warranted or necessaary but it certainly not my say.

[muskymatt]

relic

good points !!

agreed

thanks !

[Lookinforlunkers]

Scott that is exactly my point we %$&@ it up, then try to fix it, @%$& it up then try to fix it. Why don't they leave it alone.

I do love my Muskies but I consider myself a ANGLER, and although they are beautiful i have no desire eat one

[trexellunge]

Hi Relic. I agree with some of what you state, but I think there is some flaw in your statement of: " Unfortunately muskies do not have a place in Maine. They are an invasive species to them, the same way gobies are to us." Besides the fact I presented earlier that most of Maine's trout\salmon species in the St. John River area are also introduced fish.... Trophymuskie said it best when he stated: " The thing is there is no way that they EVER GET RID of muskies in the St-John river, they have been there for over 20 years and are well established." This point is very well taken. Muskies do have a place in Maine now, and always will. Maine might catch and kill many muskies in the St. John area, so that very few large fish turn up; but angling alone will NEVER eliminate them there. Not in a river system. The muskellunge is too hard to catch consistently for a bunch of novice musky fishermen to EVER accomplish this. All the kill is going to accomplish is to make the muskies much smaller on average; and with this, possibly even higher numbers of aggressive stunted fish to tear apart their trout. Not a very attractive musky fishery though; everybody loses. Hammer handle muskies . And before I forget... Slushpuppy, you stated: " My point in all these discussions is, don't try to force your values of a fishery on other parts of the country that may have other values and especially don't treat them like idiots. There's been enough 'I know better than you so I'm gonna educate you' coming from other states/provinces to fill a landfill site.".. My reaction to this is that I don't want to treat anyone like an idiot. The modern musky "catch and release" philosophy originated in Wisconsin years ago. This way of thinking eventually spread to the East through exposure and "education." The St. Lawrence River ALWAYS had a musky catch and kill philosophy before this...just look at the old photos of strung up muskies!!! Now the St. Lawrence is near the top of the list in musky conservation, and huge fish are showing up. The same could be said for much of Ontario, a catch and kill musky philosophy was replaced by the original Wisconsin musky attitude (for those of you who don't know, Wisconsin "invented" modern musky fishing and its ideals). The fish was valued for its great size and sporting qualities ALONE. No, I'm not from Wisconsin......Anyhow Slushpuppy, suggesting alternate ways for another region to better manage a resource is not calling them all stupid. Just look at the track record!