"muskies don't deserve that kind of pressure"-Why?

This is where it's all going on. One can ask for advice or general information or simply chew the fat about fishing tackle, tips, and locations.
User avatar
cprince
Diamond Participant
Diamond Participant
Posts: 2612
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:43 pm
Location: Québabwe
Contact:

"muskies don't deserve that kind of pressure"-Why?

Post by cprince »

HEX wrote:Sorry, but I'm with horsehunter on this one. It's a cash tournament any way you slice it. In my opinion, muskies don't deserve that kind of pressure.
This is the post that got me thinking... Why?!

What makes a muskie more special than a bass or a trout or a pike?

Are they THAT unique? That rare?

They are not Pandas... by that I mean endangered and next to impossible to breed in captivity.

They are stocked... right?

Is their habitat disappearing any more than that of a pike or trout?

Sooo.... why is this attitude so prevalent; "muskies don't deserve that kind of pressure"? (of a cash tournament)

This is not meant as a Musky guys against the world here... I know you guys are passionate about these big SOBs... bordering on fanaticism.

But I think that this is a fair question. Perhaps an opportunity to educate us non musky guys...

Craig
Last edited by cprince on Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Out4trout
Gold Participant
Gold Participant
Posts: 1746
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:38 pm
Location: Eastern Ontario

Post by Out4trout »

My take -
Skis are just not as common as Bass or Pike, and not nearly as prolific. Pike exact a huge toll on Juvenile Musky.
Take Lake Simcoe as an example - what was once a great Musky fishery is now nearly void of them, largely due to the Pike.

Save a Musky - Eat a Pike... :D
User avatar
Bass Addict
Diamond Participant
Diamond Participant
Posts: 4536
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:47 pm
Location: I'm keeping an EYE on Fish-Hawk

Post by Bass Addict »

In general '' Muskie '' guys don't want wannabe's targetting Musky

The more wannabe's catch,,,, the Less for the Musky guys to catch :wink:
User avatar
Out4trout
Gold Participant
Gold Participant
Posts: 1746
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:38 pm
Location: Eastern Ontario

Post by Out4trout »

To clarify - I am not a Muskie guy.
I don't have the cradle, or the HUGE net etc...
So if I was to catch a big Musky, I would have to handle it the way I do pike.

I've never had a large pike die at my hands unintentionally, but the odds would be better for any Musky if it were caught by someone better equipped than I am.
User avatar
Canmoore
Bronze Participant
Bronze Participant
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 7:18 pm

Post by Canmoore »

My take on it, is that Musky are different, and cannot deal with pressure as well as Bass or Pike can.

As had been mentioned, Pike can devastate a Musky fishery. And no, Musky cannot be stocked like trout can. Musky do not take well to high intensity stocking. Unlike trout, Musky are cannibals. Great care must be taken to keep the different sizes of musky separated.

Musky are not stocked to fill a lake with Musky, but to rehabilitate them. These are not lake trout being dumped from a plane into a lake...

Muskies are the fish of a thousand casts, and were once common. However, in some areas, they are not so common..

That is why Musky are treated differently.
User avatar
cprince
Diamond Participant
Diamond Participant
Posts: 2612
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:43 pm
Location: Québabwe
Contact:

Post by cprince »

Again... just want to be clear... I am NOT saying that Musky are this or that one way or the other.

My original post stated the impression that I have... not necessarily base on facts!


Craig
User avatar
esox50
Participant
Participant
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 8:04 pm

Re: "muskies don't deserve that kind of pressure"

Post by esox50 »

This post is meant to answer CPrince's inquiries, not reflect on Matt's outing idea.
cprince wrote:
HEX wrote:Sorry, but I'm with horsehunter on this one. It's a cash tournament any way you slice it. In my opinion, muskies don't deserve that kind of pressure.
"This is the post that got me thinking... Why?!

What makes a muskie more special than a bass or a trout or a pike?

Are they THAT unique? That rare?"

Of the popular gamefish in North America - bass (smallmouth and largemouth), walleye, pike, sunfish and panfish, etc. - muskies are amongst the rarest fish in a system. They have very low densities compared to other fish, perhaps some exceptions being sturgeon and salmonids (e.g., Atlantic salmon). Healthy populations often have less than one individual per acre of water.

"They are stocked... right?"

In this area? No. The Ottawa, St. Larry, Rideau, Kawarthas, etc. are sustained via natural reproduction. To my knowledge there is no supplementary stocking occurring. Areas in the States (like my homestate of Illinois), however, stocking sustains all of the lakes with muskies in them.

"Is their habitat disappearing any more than that of a pike or trout?"

Perhaps not, but muskies are highly susceptible to habitat degradation, moreso than pike.

What other freshwater fish (not anadromous salmon) in Canada grows larger than muskies? The answer? Sturgeon. Do sturgeon follow your lures to the boat and strike them at your feet in the figure 8? Do they cause cardiac arrest when obliterating a topwater bait in glass calm conditions? Do they possess teeth that could shred your hands in the blink of an eye? I'm pretty sure the answers are no (but if they are "yes" to any of the above questions... I guess I need to move to the Fraser!). In a nutshell, muskies are apex predators that, for many people, command the utmost respect largely because of their size and odd behaviours, and they signify the most difficult gamefish for many people to tackle.

I just watched four kids today COMPLETELY ENTHRALLED with a big fish we electroshocked. None of them had ever seen anything that large before. Their eyes were as big as a doe's in a set of high-beams (mine were, too). The kids recounted their largest fish as we recorded data from the muskie, and every one of them seemed disappointed that they had not caught something as big as what we were releasing. I'm not sure those kids are hooked for life on muskie fishing, but I know for sure that what they witnessed made a truly lasting impression on them. Personally, every muskie that I catch and photograph makes a lasting impression on me. When they filter through on my screen saver I can recount incredibly minute details of the catch. I cannot with my bass photos.

Hopefully I helped paint a picture of how specialized muskie anglers view the species (via personal experience and through my research), and hopefully I clarified a few things from your original post. Every fish is a blessing, right down to the Johnny Darters, but muskies appear to have "it" that other species don't (call them charismatic megafauna if you want to).
User avatar
muskymatt
Gold Participant
Gold Participant
Posts: 1940
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:10 pm

Post by muskymatt »

:evil:
Last edited by muskymatt on Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Trophymuskie
Gold Participant
Gold Participant
Posts: 1023
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 12:00 pm
Location: Ottawa River
Contact:

Post by Trophymuskie »

If my memory serves me correctly it takes 7 years and 34 inches in lenght before a muskie can reproduce. As well another important thing not mentioned here is that it takes 20 years around here to grow a 50 inch muskie, so the big ones are old fish.

Fish strocks are mesured by fish per acre and when it comes to muskies most lakes a lucky if that number is above 1 where as you have problems if that number for bass, pike or walleye is less then 5.

I don't think a bunch of guys fishing a weekend for fun that much pressure, it's guys ( yes you can insert guides here as I know of 2 that do that ) pounding the same spots day in and day out that destroy a fishery. As well as pounding the fish just off the spawn.
Catch and release them all
Richard Collin
RJ
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8445
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:18 pm
Location: Prospect, Ontario

Post by RJ »

Trophymuskie wrote: it's guys ( yes you can insert guides here as I know of 2 that do that ) pounding the same spots day in and day out that destroy a fishery. As well as pounding the fish just off the spawn.
How do you know that Richard?..do you follow them? I believe I know who you continue to attempt to slander and the fishery they are "pounding" as you say is more than healthy from what I've seen......

This event is no different than any of the Muskies Canada outings they hold all over the province every year......Matt is not the enemy here.

RJ
User avatar
nips
Silver Participant
Silver Participant
Posts: 524
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:39 pm
Location: Chesterville, Ontario

Post by nips »

I think that muskies are a different breed, with there later spawn and the increasing fishing pressure on them they do have to be looked at as different or "special". We live in one of the few natural producing muskie ranges on the planet and that is a huge success for our waters, if you look at the USA which is mainly stocked with our strain of fish because of the potential to grow to be huge they must stock the fish or they will have none. I see guys fishing for them without the right gear and it bothers me.
I'm not 100% on this but I heard they don't spawn until 5 years old?? where as any other fish would spawn every year.
My undersized musky just ATE your trophy bass
User avatar
dead_weight
Bronze Participant
Bronze Participant
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:09 am

Post by dead_weight »

Well whether anyone here thinks that Muskies are special the MNR sure does ... as you all know the rules surrounding catching one are very strict ... if you have a conservation license you can't catch any at all (in our area anyway). I've watched many a fishing show where the guys are catching muskies and it can be a delicate operation from getting them in the boat, taking the hooks out, put on special gloves, handling them properly and perhaps most important revival and letting them go. Given all this they appear to be pretty special indeed.

Does this mean that tourneys should not happen ... my take is "that depends" ... if it's a large bunch of guys fishing a smallish area and the same fish are getting taken then it increases the chances that one may die ... it happens ... at least thats what the guys on the fishing shows say .. .they say a fight with a muskie really sets them back similar to us running a marathon or something ... they need time to recover.

But if it's a few guys that have all the proper gear, have some experience with these beasts and are covering a large enough area then why not have a tourney and perhaps invite some folks that are new to muskie fishing to try it out ... with muskies it appears education is the key.
User avatar
beachburger
Gold Participant
Gold Participant
Posts: 1068
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:48 pm
Location: Beachburg

Post by beachburger »

Well whether anyone here thinks that Muskies are special the MNR sure does ... as you all know the rules surrounding catching one are very strict ... if you have a conservation license you can't catch any at all (in our area anyway).
The diff between a Conservation licence and a Sport licence in Ontario for an Ontario resident is a whopping $11 per year ( http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Le ... 65326.html). If there was actual concern for muskies, there would be such things as special tags, shorter seasons, a barbless hook requirement, a possession limit of zero, etc.

If muskies were as precious and unique and rare as some would have us believe, they should be targeted with an application for endangered species status instead of a lure containing several hooks as big as your hand.
User avatar
miker
Participant
Participant
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 7:48 pm

Post by miker »

Well whether anyone here thinks that Muskies are special the MNR sure does ... as you all know the rules surrounding catching one are very strict ... if you have a conservation license you can't catch any at all (in our area anyway).
assuming you are talking about Ontario, we just have to be careful with wording there....people who have a conservation license are allowed to catch Musky, but have to release them right away (page 4 of the Ontario fishing regulations):
Conservation Fishing Licence: A reduced catch and possession limit licence that is ideal for anglers who want to live-release the majority of fish caught. Under this licence, anglers must immediately release muskellunge, Atlantic salmon and aurora trout
maybe different zones have different regs, but from what I can see at least, in the ottawa area...there are no extra restrictions on a C vs S licence for just *catching* them...
User avatar
dead_weight
Bronze Participant
Bronze Participant
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:09 am

Post by dead_weight »

Hi beachburger ...

I'm speaking of the law and regulations ... I never said that they were endangered or precious .. simply that they are special and need to be managed closer than some other species ... or certainly thats what muskie guides preach on TV all the time ... and the guide that my buddy goes with on the ottawa river ... and the regs seem to back them up ...and certainly the people inducted into the Muskie Hall of Fame agree ...

http://www.muskiescanada.ca/club_inform ... f_fame.php


You will see their philosophies all surround conservation, catch and release habitat rehab, etc.

If you look at the bio of Bruce Park it says it all ... "Bruce Park was the founding president of Muskies Canada. In 1978 he started a movement of catch and release, as he felt Muskies were to special and fragile resource to only catch once. He spearheaded the early campaign with the help of Muskies Canada organization to increase minimum size limit from 28” to 36”"

nuff said ...
Post Reply