photographing OOS fish

[MichaelVandenberg]

I wanted to say that I do think people are getting a bit too comfortable with OOS fish pics.

Well said Wolfe!

Mike

[MichaelVandenberg]

While I understand I probably won't get a pat on the back for an OOS fish, I probably wouldn't post it either, but I would keep it, because It's something I'd want to remember...

Excellent point!

Mike

[dana]

while i will make no comment on the OOS pics......
except that Fishhawk does seem to be the place they showup...
perhaps more people here have not caught fish like a 5lb+LM
and cannot resist posting it for peer recog...

All i have to say is that

83% of ALL Largemouth fry are eaten by LargeMouth
70+% of all smallmouth fry are eaten by smallmouth.....

do these numbers signify that
all the sunfish, bluegills, humans goofing around
out of season are puny compared to
the lil fishees bretheren..?

DON'T fish out of season
but don't blame the bluegills...lol

df

[Mikey]

John...post was made tongue in cheek... I do beleive there are other more pressing issues that impact a SIGNIFICANTLY greater number of fish....(as stated so eloquently by RJ) As CCB did state, this is one means we can control as individuals....if you so choose to....that is an individual decision we are all faced with when we set out in the morning to wet a line. Wolfe....you suggest we shouldn't selectively ignore statistics simply because they are bothersome to our habitat or wants...wouldn't choosing not to post photographs of fish that were accidently caught OOS not be selective also? We all know that this happens every spring, and can only be avoided by abstaining from fishing until all species fall into season. Choosing the pictures that are posted will not halt the action....as I mentioned in an earlier post...we are all guilty of it at one time or another of our fishing careers...it happens...hopefully accidently...and the fish is returned to the water. I posted a pic of my son holding a large smallmouth he caught while crappie fishing in a creek....the pic was quickly taken, and he immediately returned the fish to the water....so I guess we're both guilty. I have also noticed that a person making a post about accidently catching an OOS fish while targeting another species...is immediately asked to post a pic...I have accidently caught OOS fish, and I have taken their picture (of those that are extraordinary catches)...and ALL have been returned to the water...I guess what I'm getting at here is that any picture that's posted could be critisized on some level...handling...time out of water...etc....I think things have been blown out of perspective slightly when it comes to a picture of a fish...just my opinion here...hope no offence is taken Wolfe, it was in no way my intention here...Tight lines!

[SkeeterJohn]

I would love to have a room full of CO's to see how the majority feels about OS fish pics. I don't think you'd find too many condoning them.

Once again if it was such a huge issue with the mnr wouldn't you think they would have an explicit regulation stating that taking photograph of oos fish will result in a fine. The only attention you'll get from a co is if he see's you place the fish in a livewell while you get your camera gear ready... i'd say the majority of people snap a quick picture and it's back straight away. I suspect the average person will take a couple of pictures per trip so if i catch 20 fish 2 get pictures or less.. maybe...

If we were all so concerned perhaps staying at home during these periods is the best solution than risking catching a fish. I don't see anyone advocating that so playing a fish is ok but don't take it out of the water... double standards no?

Mikey it's all a good read Some people have very strong feelings on this topic... thankfully the tone of this thread has been on the whole very good.

[wolfe]

Wolfe, lets not forget that Micheals post may have influenced some to take better care when handling oos prespawning fish. That's all one can ask.
I for one though, will be greatly reducing my oos pics. I asked Micheal to forward me his reaserch and I've enjoyed reading it. Do I buy into all of it? Not really, but I am sold on that perhaps I am putting a little extra stress on a fish at a time I probably shouldn't be.

I don't mind being educated, but it is a slow process when trying to teach a new language to someone who doesn't really want to listen.

Markus, very well said and I agree with you. Your closing statement is especially poignant and reflects honesty.

My fear is just that some are getting complacent with seeing OOS fish photographed and pics posted proudly alongside fish caught well within season. It's a slippery slope, I think. First an occasional pic of an exceptional fish, then becoming more and more accepted...more pics, more often...

Also there is a gross difference between a "quick pic" and release vs. taking multiple shots -- and most especially removing the fish from the area it was caught to be taken to a different location exclusively for the purpose of photographing it. I don't think a CO would be OK with that.

Anyway.....I like that people are staying respectful in this post. Things have gotten more civilized as we leave winter behind!

W.

[SkeeterJohn]

Also there is a gross difference between a "quick pic" and release vs. taking multiple shots -- and most especially removing the fish from the area it was caught to be taken to a different location exclusively for the purpose of photographing it. I don't think a CO would be OK with that.

Exactly !! I think the majority of people who consider taking an oos picture do so selectivly and as quickly as possible. Going to any greater lengths is asking for trouble.

[Michael]

It was suggested that pre-season C&R stress may be trivial to bass populations...

....but maybe it's not trivial. Read on:

The Impact of Catch-and-Release Angling on the Reproductive Success of Smallmouth Bass and Largemouth Bass

North American Journal of Fisheries Management: Vol. 17, No. 2, pp. 557–567.


DAVID P. PHILIPP,

Center for Aquatic Ecology, Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 East Peabody Drive, Champaign, Illinois 61820, USA
FRANK J. S. PHELAN



Abstract.—Current management strategies for black bass Micropterus spp.—specifically, largemouth bass M. salmoides and smallmouth bass M. dolomieu—sometimes incorporate regulations with closed fishing seasons during reproductive activities. Our field study investigated how well anglers were complying with Ontario's closed black bass fishing season, and how illegal preseason catch-and-release angling was affecting black bass reproductive success. Study areas were composed of 2-km stretches of shoreline in two lakes and two rivers in southeastern Ontario. Experimental procedures involved visual assessment of angler activities, visual monitoring of black bass reproductive success, and experimental angling of individual male black bass. Our results demonstrate that there is substantial preseason angling for nesting male black bass in at least some waters covered by the closed season. Results also indicate that this illegal activity is substantial enough in some waters to decrease fry production. The question then remains, will a reduction in black bass reproductive success reduce recruitment at the population level? Long-term monitoring efforts are underway to answer this question, but in the meantime, experimental angling studies have identified some of the factors that contribute to nest abandonment following capture and release, thereby suggesting ways to minimize the negative impacts of this activity on black bass reproductive success.


[PM me if you'd like to access the full paper]

[Markus]

MIcheal, my response to that is whoop di do. There's no secret that anlers are pressuring spawning bass. No one needs to hide in the bushes to find that out.

My concern is what effects does it have on the outcome? Sure it reduces bass fry, but what is the concern? Is the bass population suffering in SE ON? There are many reasons that cause fry mortality.

I guess my question is, what is the overall state of the bass population in Ontario??

[SkeeterJohn]

So now we've gone from 'taking fish out of water after a fight' to 'illegal fishing activities'... sure get enough people fishing for oos fish and it will have a detremental effect on the fishery.

[ady]

Have been waching this post for last few days and my conclusions are:
Nearly all the points of view (when clarified in some cases) make sense and in reality most of the other posters agree with them in principle. I think the post is trying to preach to the converted. There have been a few posts on FH that have stired the pot up and it appears in the first instance that FH'ers are getting at each other but I don't think that is a problem. The important thing here is that the post exists and is getting out there to all the board members and lurkers thereby spreading the word. I initially regretted posting last year on Musky Live baiting, which generated some heated responses, but afterwards I realised that I had learned some important info that I needed to know and I bet others did too.

This post has changed/moulded my attitude to OOS pics.

[crash]

Well it started out OOS pic posting now its targeting OOS bass.
I find some of this educational. I beleive this mite be benificial to the new anglers on the site. As for the ethics of pics it will be to each their on morals. I know that some ppl will get flamed others will not.
AS for targeting OOS fish in MHO it is just plain ingnorant and is classed as an offense. No excuses you are poaching if the season is closed and deliberately targeting OOS fish.
A good example is the seasonal sanctuary in the inner bay of Long Point.It is well posted and still people get in there and whine about being charged.
We are all well educated people here on the board and I enjoy the site very much. I value the new friendships I have made in meeting at F-H gatherings.
I do beleive some benifit will come from these postings.
The only thing is there will always be people wanting to do as they please and to hell with the rules. These are the ones we as a group need to educate by promoting good fishing ethics.
Not by imposing a holier than thou attitude.This will only cause a reversal of what some one is trying to point out.

So good fishing. Enjoy the out doors and use common sense.

[QuakerOatz]

I created a poll for this topic:

http://www.fish-hawk.net/hawktalk/viewtopic.php?t=10998

[grumpy7790]

Michael,
You forgot to highlight the most import part:

The question then remains, will a reduction in black bass reproductive success reduce recruitment at the population level?

Some biologist (Cornell) say NO!

Some estimate that only (2) fry are needed from 50% of the spawning pairs to maintain the population of bass within a fishery. This estimate is what NY is betting it's proposed Year Long open Bass season on. You have to remember how many other members of the food chain will be hammering the same fry.

G

[RJ]

But this is one issue that we as anglers can control ourselves, as individuals.

Can't dozens of tournaments every year be controlled as well?...as individuals?...

A pre-spawn fish....(notice pre-spawn)......is hooked...landed...a quick photo is snapped.....and fish is released back to water....back on its way....

OR

A Post Spawn Fish is caught at 715 AM.....stringer with small rope is poked thru lower lip for identification.....placed in livewell....confined to area of 3 feet by 2 feet for 8 hours....joined by other bass.....bounced and sloshed around for 8 hours in warm water....taken out by small rope.....put in plastic bag with 4 others...floated in a tub of water....brought onto stage....dropped into laundry tub dry....flopping around....waiting for scale to settle.....then held up for the crowd to see and photos.....then walked back down to a boat for them to be put back at some point....

Now which of the above situations causes more stress to the bass fishery?

As expected....zero response.....

Mikey.....tongue in cheek eh?... ..I read it that way....

Just pointing out the fact that tournaments cause as much of an issue if not more than a quick snap of a camera.....I'm not saying tournaments should be stopped or anything remotely close to that....just that those who criticize others aren't so innocent themsleves all the time...

RJ