I've typed and changed about a zillion times. I'm really trying hard to be polite here - but I'm not doing very well - the only things that come to mind will either be deleted immediately or turned into so much gibberish by the filter. But one thing I can say with confidence is... that when I post, a thread dies.
So..... My gift to those that are as bored with this poop as I am, I give you MY post....................
So here's the deal. You're trying to force an issue that appeals to you.
This is your M.O. - take a look at your past posts - I highly recommend it - makes good reading if you'd like to lapse into a coma on the spot!
You are the worst kind of offender; you do it under the guise of "helping" when all you really want is to feed your own (unfounded) ego. Get over yourself!
Is there some interesting information in your posts? Sure.... nothing I can't find on the net using the same search parameters you used - but I get it without all your BS!
Oh yes, you do try to hide it with your self-effacing comments, and your "I apologize for not..." and it typically gets by, but my BS radar is finely tuned and you've tripped it one too many times.
Somehow, you seem to be under the false impression that your will, your way, is superior to that of others, even those who are like minded. Hate to break it to ya baby, but your opinion is the same as everyone else’s - YOUR OWN.
So for your "poll" answer - GET BENT
FH does not have to kowtow to the likes of you, me, or anyone else.
By allowing guests to post photos by no mean implies that the founders of this (or any other) site share the
opinions of the poster. If you think it does... then my dear, the problem lies with you - not FH.
I am the thread killer and I have posted.
DANA
InFisherman, FishHawk and OOS photos
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Misses Livewell
- Bronze Participant
- Posts: 115
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:48 pm
- Location: Rockland, ON
Last edited by Misses Livewell on Fri May 27, 2005 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bucketmouth
- Gold Participant
- Posts: 1685
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:26 pm
- Location: Russell
- Contact:
Kudos, well done, congrats, Elvis has left the building!Misses Livewell wrote:I've typed and changed about a zillion times. I'm really trying hard to be polite here - but I'm not doing very well - the only things that come to mind will either be deleted immediately or turned into so much gibberish by the filter. But one thing I can say with confidence is... that when I post, a thread dies.
So..... My gift to those that are as bored with this poop as I am, I give you MY post....................
So here's the deal. You're trying to force an issue that appeals to you.
This is your M.O. - take a look at your past posts - I highly recommend it - makes good reading if you'd like to lapse into a coma on the spot!
You are the worst kind of offender; you do it under the guise of "helping" when all you really want is to feed your own (unfounded) ego. Get over yourself!
Is there some interesting information in your posts? Sure.... nothing I can't find on the net using the same search parameters you used - but I get it without all your BS!
Oh yes, you do try to hide it with your self-effacing comments, and your "I apologize for not..." and it typically gets by, but my BS radar is finely tuned and you've tripped it one too many times.
Somehow, you seem to be under the false impression that your will, your way, is superior to that of others, even those who are like minded. Hate to break it to ya baby, but your opinion is the same as everyone else’s - YOURS.
So for your "poll" answer - GET BENT
FH does not have to kowtow to the likes of you, me, or anyone else.
By allowing guests to post photos by no mean implies that the founders of this (or any other) site share the
opinions of the poster. If you think it does... then my dear, the problem lies with you - not FH.
I am the thread killer and I have posted.
DANA
Now let's all go fishing.
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Duck Gunner
- Bronze Participant
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:53 am
- Location: Orleans, Ontario
WHOOOOOW!
Does this make me the thread resurector?
A few comments. I think we had better get used to the same topics reappearing. If it weren't for reappearing topics there wouldn't be any real juicy stuff to discuss. Besides, the juicy topics are the controversial ones and whether they drive you nuts or not, there are a lot of people who learn an awful lot from them. A lot of people have their opinions swayed by them as well - usually because good arguments are put forth that are persuasive or appeal to the angler in some way. But having a good, intelligent discussion that avoids mud slinging and name-calling and accusations and all sorts of other crap - that is the sign of an advanced civilization if you ask me. You people on Hawk Talk do it better than any other message board I know. What a valuable educational resource!
Do I think pictures of OOS fish are illegal? I haven't been convinced. I have heard so much from so many different poeple that it would take a letter from the Minister himself to convince me of the legality. So if not illegal, is it moral?
Do I think taking a picture of an OOS fish is immoral? I would hate for my morals to be put under a microscope by you guys. Do I take pics of OOS fish? I haven't for a long time. Over the years I have grown to become disappointed when a whopper bass comes in while chasing pike. Do Bobber and I still say "Wow - take a look at the size of that hawg." We sure do - its tough not to admire a hawg. A hawg is a hawg. The fish is released. Personally, I don't get the same feeling of joy? happiness? excitement? or whatever when I catch a fish that I am not targeting.
That's me. Do I like looking at the pics of other OOS fish? Hmmmm - not really. To me they are sort of tainted in a way. I woudn't miss them if they didn't get posted - except for the sturgeon that Cman posted - I admit to enjoying that picture - sturgeon are still a curiosity to me. Oh no - moral dilemma.
I don't remember the last time I took a pic of an OOS fish that was caught in my boat. Last year I posted a picture of the guys on Bobber's boat releasing a 42 inch muskie that was accidentally caught one week before muskie season opened. Was that immoral of me to do that? I was like a by-stander in another boat 20 feet away.
Should FHN be pro-active about removing pics of OOS fish? We do not publish the pictures - anglers do. It's a choice they make. I don't believe for a second that pictures of OOS fish encourage others to go and catch OOS fish. Does it encourage others to take pictures of OOS fish? I don't know. We will never know. Probably not if the pictures generate ensuing discussions like this one.
What a nightmare that kind of policy would create! It's difficult enough to police the posts that break the black and white rules. While I admire In-Fisherman for the high road it consistently takes, it's easy for In-Fisherman to say they are not going to post OOS pictures. Let people pubish pictures in the magazine first and ask Doug Stange to remove the ones he thinks are not worthy. Yikes!
And here-in lies the value in having discussion like this one, repeatedly and ad nauseum. Discussions like this one have a great tendancy to have an impact on many who participate and many who just read. Why? Because people become informed of just about every argument there is, pro and con. I will bet there are at least ten people who have posted pics of OOS fish in the last two months who will never post a pic of an OOS fish again. That's evolution. Next year we'll have the same discussion and a few more people, perhaps newbies, won't bother to post pics of OOS fish again.
I will not be paying attention to the poll that started this thread. That poll does not hold much relevance for me - certainly not nearly as much relevance as all the comments that followed. Pls take no offence Michael. I'm not positive, but if you are who I think you are then you would be one who understands statistics and polls and how just about any meaning can be construed by the numbers.
Removing people's pictures requires too much of a moral judgement call for my liking. Discussing the issue like we have is far more likely to be a catalyst for change (if society feels it is important to change based on all the arguments you people make) than a bleary-eyed monitor who presses the delete button.
Does this make me the thread resurector?
A few comments. I think we had better get used to the same topics reappearing. If it weren't for reappearing topics there wouldn't be any real juicy stuff to discuss. Besides, the juicy topics are the controversial ones and whether they drive you nuts or not, there are a lot of people who learn an awful lot from them. A lot of people have their opinions swayed by them as well - usually because good arguments are put forth that are persuasive or appeal to the angler in some way. But having a good, intelligent discussion that avoids mud slinging and name-calling and accusations and all sorts of other crap - that is the sign of an advanced civilization if you ask me. You people on Hawk Talk do it better than any other message board I know. What a valuable educational resource!
Do I think pictures of OOS fish are illegal? I haven't been convinced. I have heard so much from so many different poeple that it would take a letter from the Minister himself to convince me of the legality. So if not illegal, is it moral?
Do I think taking a picture of an OOS fish is immoral? I would hate for my morals to be put under a microscope by you guys. Do I take pics of OOS fish? I haven't for a long time. Over the years I have grown to become disappointed when a whopper bass comes in while chasing pike. Do Bobber and I still say "Wow - take a look at the size of that hawg." We sure do - its tough not to admire a hawg. A hawg is a hawg. The fish is released. Personally, I don't get the same feeling of joy? happiness? excitement? or whatever when I catch a fish that I am not targeting.
That's me. Do I like looking at the pics of other OOS fish? Hmmmm - not really. To me they are sort of tainted in a way. I woudn't miss them if they didn't get posted - except for the sturgeon that Cman posted - I admit to enjoying that picture - sturgeon are still a curiosity to me. Oh no - moral dilemma.
I don't remember the last time I took a pic of an OOS fish that was caught in my boat. Last year I posted a picture of the guys on Bobber's boat releasing a 42 inch muskie that was accidentally caught one week before muskie season opened. Was that immoral of me to do that? I was like a by-stander in another boat 20 feet away.
Should FHN be pro-active about removing pics of OOS fish? We do not publish the pictures - anglers do. It's a choice they make. I don't believe for a second that pictures of OOS fish encourage others to go and catch OOS fish. Does it encourage others to take pictures of OOS fish? I don't know. We will never know. Probably not if the pictures generate ensuing discussions like this one.
What a nightmare that kind of policy would create! It's difficult enough to police the posts that break the black and white rules. While I admire In-Fisherman for the high road it consistently takes, it's easy for In-Fisherman to say they are not going to post OOS pictures. Let people pubish pictures in the magazine first and ask Doug Stange to remove the ones he thinks are not worthy. Yikes!
And here-in lies the value in having discussion like this one, repeatedly and ad nauseum. Discussions like this one have a great tendancy to have an impact on many who participate and many who just read. Why? Because people become informed of just about every argument there is, pro and con. I will bet there are at least ten people who have posted pics of OOS fish in the last two months who will never post a pic of an OOS fish again. That's evolution. Next year we'll have the same discussion and a few more people, perhaps newbies, won't bother to post pics of OOS fish again.
I will not be paying attention to the poll that started this thread. That poll does not hold much relevance for me - certainly not nearly as much relevance as all the comments that followed. Pls take no offence Michael. I'm not positive, but if you are who I think you are then you would be one who understands statistics and polls and how just about any meaning can be construed by the numbers.
Removing people's pictures requires too much of a moral judgement call for my liking. Discussing the issue like we have is far more likely to be a catalyst for change (if society feels it is important to change based on all the arguments you people make) than a bleary-eyed monitor who presses the delete button.
Fishhawk
"gotta run like a madman bye thanks see ya good luck"
"gotta run like a madman bye thanks see ya good luck"
Fish-Hawk and others,
I really goofed in the wording of the poll question. I was aiming for something short and sweet and ended up with something that was worded like a referendum. Ugh! That's not what I'd intended. If I could do it over, I'd begin each option with:
"I would prefer that...."
Even if I could have predicted the outcome of the poll, I never presumed that it would have affected the OOS policy of FishHawk. Sorry if my ill-chosen wording raised the ire of some.
As FishHawk alluded, the only possible winning outcome in this kind of poll/discussion is the enrichment of our worldview that comes with open, mutually respectful discourse and an open mind.
My feelings about pre-season bass photos aren't as strong as some might think. I have much stronger feelings about free speech and the value of open dialogue. I have learned a great deal from others on this site. I’ve learned the most from people who don’t share my views.
I knew in advance of this poll that Fish-Hawkers were divided, somewhere around the middle, on the ethics and impact of posting OOS pictures on the site. As indicated by the number of hits on the related threads, it was also apparent that this issue matters to a lot of us...possibly many more than the number who dared to make a comment, one way or another.
So, the poll was in part meant to provide a safe and anonymous means for members of our fine community to register an opinion without being inappropriately characterised as either a "poacher" or a "PETA sympathizer". At this early stage (day 1 of 10) it looks there are indeed more people with a viewpoint than the small number of us who chipped in with our comments.
I wonder if personal attacks and demeaning comments (from all sides of any given issue) are common enough and intense enough that many people are hesitant to share their own views. Perhaps a poll on the subject would be informative...
Have a great weekend,
Michael
(P.S. I've made a few miss-steps in my tone along the way. I'm particularly sorry for my glib "Science-Schmience" remark to Bacon. Despite my Irish temperment, I will try to be more appropriate in the future.)
I really goofed in the wording of the poll question. I was aiming for something short and sweet and ended up with something that was worded like a referendum. Ugh! That's not what I'd intended. If I could do it over, I'd begin each option with:
"I would prefer that...."
Even if I could have predicted the outcome of the poll, I never presumed that it would have affected the OOS policy of FishHawk. Sorry if my ill-chosen wording raised the ire of some.
As FishHawk alluded, the only possible winning outcome in this kind of poll/discussion is the enrichment of our worldview that comes with open, mutually respectful discourse and an open mind.
My feelings about pre-season bass photos aren't as strong as some might think. I have much stronger feelings about free speech and the value of open dialogue. I have learned a great deal from others on this site. I’ve learned the most from people who don’t share my views.
I knew in advance of this poll that Fish-Hawkers were divided, somewhere around the middle, on the ethics and impact of posting OOS pictures on the site. As indicated by the number of hits on the related threads, it was also apparent that this issue matters to a lot of us...possibly many more than the number who dared to make a comment, one way or another.
So, the poll was in part meant to provide a safe and anonymous means for members of our fine community to register an opinion without being inappropriately characterised as either a "poacher" or a "PETA sympathizer". At this early stage (day 1 of 10) it looks there are indeed more people with a viewpoint than the small number of us who chipped in with our comments.
I wonder if personal attacks and demeaning comments (from all sides of any given issue) are common enough and intense enough that many people are hesitant to share their own views. Perhaps a poll on the subject would be informative...
Have a great weekend,
Michael
(P.S. I've made a few miss-steps in my tone along the way. I'm particularly sorry for my glib "Science-Schmience" remark to Bacon. Despite my Irish temperment, I will try to be more appropriate in the future.)
Great post Hawk. The best explanation yet for those of us who think that there is little worth taking a picture of an OOS fish. I'm not trying to force an opinion or morals, not trying to deny someone a fond memory if in fact that is the real reason. Like you when I'm targeting pike and get a hit and find its a big bass and not a pike, I am dissappointed.
Michael, I read each and everyone of your posts. Whoever you are; for good/bad/whatever its pretty safe to say you do have an agenda of sorts. Why don't you tell us what is instead of framing it in silly polls? After the thrashing you took from the Misses I don't think you'll be taken too seriously from now on anyway.
Michael, I read each and everyone of your posts. Whoever you are; for good/bad/whatever its pretty safe to say you do have an agenda of sorts. Why don't you tell us what is instead of framing it in silly polls? After the thrashing you took from the Misses I don't think you'll be taken too seriously from now on anyway.
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Markus
- Diamond Participant
- Posts: 7362
- Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:05 am
- Location: Nova Scotia/St Catharines
Dana, thanks for trying to carfully choose the right words so we wouldnt have to edit them. I understand your response is a reflection of your frustration with this topic, but I do need to remind you to be mindful and respectful when it comes to personal attacks.Misses Livewell wrote:I've typed and changed about a zillion times. I'm really trying hard to be polite here - but I'm not doing very well - the only things that come to mind will either be deleted immediately or turned into so much gibberish by the filter. But one thing I can say with confidence is... that when I post, a thread dies.
So..... My gift to those that are as bored with this poop as I am, I give you MY post....................
So here's the deal. You're trying to force an issue that appeals to you.
This is your M.O. - take a look at your past posts - I highly recommend it - makes good reading if you'd like to lapse into a coma on the spot!
You are the worst kind of offender; you do it under the guise of "helping" when all you really want is to feed your own (unfounded) ego. Get over yourself!
Is there some interesting information in your posts? Sure.... nothing I can't find on the net using the same search parameters you used - but I get it without all your BS!
Oh yes, you do try to hide it with your self-effacing comments, and your "I apologize for not..." and it typically gets by, but my BS radar is finely tuned and you've tripped it one too many times.
Somehow, you seem to be under the false impression that your will, your way, is superior to that of others, even those who are like minded. Hate to break it to ya baby, but your opinion is the same as everyone else’s - YOUR OWN.
So for your "poll" answer - GET BENT
FH does not have to kowtow to the likes of you, me, or anyone else.
By allowing guests to post photos by no mean implies that the founders of this (or any other) site share the
opinions of the poster. If you think it does... then my dear, the problem lies with you - not FH.
I am the thread killer and I have posted.
DANA
Being able to respectfully discuss a heated topic without the harsh critizisms has to be enforced here on Hawk Talk. Trust me, I'm a hot head too, so I know how tough it is to take a little more time when composing a response.
Lol Amen to Misses Livewell.
On a more serious note, I am very pleased (maybe that doesn't mean much) to see the stance that Fishhawk took, because in the long run, I think he's right.
I offered up a suggestion for some middle ground in a PM to one of the moderaters, and I can't begin to describe how happy I am to see that that route, or any other route for that matter, which would change the way we say and do things was avoided.
Just a few more of my cents thrown into the ring.
On a more serious note, I am very pleased (maybe that doesn't mean much) to see the stance that Fishhawk took, because in the long run, I think he's right.
I offered up a suggestion for some middle ground in a PM to one of the moderaters, and I can't begin to describe how happy I am to see that that route, or any other route for that matter, which would change the way we say and do things was avoided.
Just a few more of my cents thrown into the ring.
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Canadian Bacon
- Diamond Participant
- Posts: 4396
- Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:56 am
I am keeping my comments on this..just that....mine...
For me
This was forgotten long ago! But thanks again!!
(P.S. I've made a few miss-steps in my tone along the way. I'm particularly sorry for my glib "Science-Schmience" remark to Bacon. Despite my Irish temperment, I will try to be more appropriate in the future.)
For me
This was forgotten long ago!
But thanks again!! -
Moosebunk
- Diamond Participant
- Posts: 3306
- Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:29 am
- Location: A Superfishery Near You.
Just finished getting caught up...
Dana. Great post, but you know us boys'll be boys and although you point out BS (and seemingly rightfully so) you gotta understand a stance is a stance and when it's in disagreement with another; like many opinions have been here, egos, hotheadedness or obtusiveness most often shine through whether meant or just simply portrayed by the individual.
Debate is healthy. And really, that's what this is. And if people name call or single certain people out and this creates a spiralling backlash between those certain people, than maybe it's what's needed to help them just simply move on. As FH friends or not.
But sorry folks, hate to be wishy washy but my opinion is still up in the air on this one. Glad you're all working through it though, maybe it'll help me and any other fence sitters figure sh!te out.
Dana. Great post, but you know us boys'll be boys and although you point out BS (and seemingly rightfully so) you gotta understand a stance is a stance and when it's in disagreement with another; like many opinions have been here, egos, hotheadedness or obtusiveness most often shine through whether meant or just simply portrayed by the individual.
Debate is healthy. And really, that's what this is. And if people name call or single certain people out and this creates a spiralling backlash between those certain people, than maybe it's what's needed to help them just simply move on. As FH friends or not.
But sorry folks, hate to be wishy washy but my opinion is still up in the air on this one. Glad you're all working through it though, maybe it'll help me and any other fence sitters figure sh!te out.
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Wall-I-Guy
- Diamond Participant
- Posts: 4930
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:06 am
- Location: Kanata,Ontario
..Sheesh