RJ, you definitely have some valid points, but just to add another 2cents, I think we also need to consider that it is not just FH reports that cause overfishing in spots. I mean, even without FH, there are other sites, public and private, and word of mouth - if some lurker decides to try out a spot, discovers they like it and then go on to blab about it to a dozen of his buddies... yeah there's always going to be some kind of consequence to revealing info. And even if it isn't you, or Almonte, or whoever who offers it, someone somewhere will.
And I don't know about anyone else, but when I am searching through forums, I might lurk for a while to get the feel of the "community" before I decide whether I am comfortable joining or not. So no, not everyone will contribute - we all know this world is FAR from ideal - but that's their choice (despite how much we may want to send them to meet Kpin's ex).
You should be able to post as much or as little as you feel comfortable with. But if no one posted anything, it would be rather pointless and no help to anyone.
Opinion time
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Cast-A-Way
- Bronze Participant
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- Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:27 pm
- Location: Metcalfe
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I kinda feel guilty for Posting a report on Shirley's bay now ?!?!?
I am a little confused as far as report's goes, is it accepted or not ?
Can someone shed a little light for me ??
I am a little confused as far as report's goes, is it accepted or not ?
Can someone shed a little light for me ??
Last edited by Cast-A-Way on Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Nice rebuttal
[/quote]
OTRA...You are correct I guess.....but why would a fisherman ever want to do that to a spot or lake that he cherishes?[/quote]
Actually RJ, after futher review, I disagree with myself. While long term an area would be self correcting that doesn't occur overnight. Now, I don't think we intentionally over fish a spot, but if you've just driven 1-2 hours and find the parking area crowded, you probably still fish it that day. Then the next time you try and find a new spot. As a kid I trout fished in Northwestern Montana, really isolated, but here on the east coast opening day of trout season used to be elbow to elbow, big difference.
OTRA...You are correct I guess.....but why would a fisherman ever want to do that to a spot or lake that he cherishes?[/quote]
Actually RJ, after futher review, I disagree with myself. While long term an area would be self correcting that doesn't occur overnight. Now, I don't think we intentionally over fish a spot, but if you've just driven 1-2 hours and find the parking area crowded, you probably still fish it that day. Then the next time you try and find a new spot. As a kid I trout fished in Northwestern Montana, really isolated, but here on the east coast opening day of trout season used to be elbow to elbow, big difference.
As far as RJ's coments, for the most part I agree, but one specific location, it's been busy but ............. double vision on a friends part i guess.
One of the very first reports on this site was a single stick in a bay just down from the hydro lines (south I guess, no gps) ..... I made mention on my site "at the time" this was my only competition the fish-hawk guys were moving in
For the most part, most folk I've talked to caught diddily and they wont be back ..... I guess if you know how to fish it you'll be back
seems to me traffic has not been to heavy last year
One of the very first reports on this site was a single stick in a bay just down from the hydro lines (south I guess, no gps) ..... I made mention on my site "at the time" this was my only competition the fish-hawk guys were moving in
For the most part, most folk I've talked to caught diddily and they wont be back ..... I guess if you know how to fish it you'll be back
seems to me traffic has not been to heavy last year
Like most here I find this to be a question that is on my mind a lot when it comes to FH. I do not know what my stance is personally with leaving locations in or out of reports, but here are my thoughts.
In my opinion sharing information and reports with your friends (real and virtual) makes the fishing experience a lot more enjoyable. There are a lot of feuds, and people get upset about over fishing, but there is a trade off for everything.
Ideally, for every bit of knowledge that one learns about where to find fish, they would learn the same amount of knowledge about being a responsible angler.
People scour the board to find out where to catch fish, but at the same time if we all learn about protecting the resource by practicing selective harvesting (releasing walleye over 16"), not over-handling fish and removing their protective slime, using barb-less hooks, properly reviving fish, not fishing OOS. On top of that very useful reminders about respecting others, respecting private property, picking up your litter. Recently, there has been an excellent (scary) thread about the trouble and danger that we can get into on the water. Personally I found this to be the best public service announcement I have been exposed to about safe boating.
We are all competing for a shared resource, and most of us love the thrill of catching fish so much that we will consult with any resource we can get to optimize our catches. But at the same time these other important messages are getting across from sites like FH. For the most part I believe that people do things that harm the fishery because they simply do not have the knowledge, not because they are more greedy or inconsiderate.
Sharing fishing info on the web is new to all of us, and it will take work to get it right. History has shown that humans are really good at over-fishing areas until species are nearly extinct (both sport and commercial). I think that the internet community is an excellent chance to change this.
In my opinion sharing information and reports with your friends (real and virtual) makes the fishing experience a lot more enjoyable. There are a lot of feuds, and people get upset about over fishing, but there is a trade off for everything.
Ideally, for every bit of knowledge that one learns about where to find fish, they would learn the same amount of knowledge about being a responsible angler.
People scour the board to find out where to catch fish, but at the same time if we all learn about protecting the resource by practicing selective harvesting (releasing walleye over 16"), not over-handling fish and removing their protective slime, using barb-less hooks, properly reviving fish, not fishing OOS. On top of that very useful reminders about respecting others, respecting private property, picking up your litter. Recently, there has been an excellent (scary) thread about the trouble and danger that we can get into on the water. Personally I found this to be the best public service announcement I have been exposed to about safe boating.
We are all competing for a shared resource, and most of us love the thrill of catching fish so much that we will consult with any resource we can get to optimize our catches. But at the same time these other important messages are getting across from sites like FH. For the most part I believe that people do things that harm the fishery because they simply do not have the knowledge, not because they are more greedy or inconsiderate.
Sharing fishing info on the web is new to all of us, and it will take work to get it right. History has shown that humans are really good at over-fishing areas until species are nearly extinct (both sport and commercial). I think that the internet community is an excellent chance to change this.
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Markus
- Diamond Participant
- Posts: 7362
- Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:05 am
- Location: Nova Scotia/St Catharines
I was once a very open and public poster. I enjoyed helping anyone and everyone. Those actions came with a price though...
Even though I enjoyed helping folks enjoy a fun weekend of angling, others that lurked in the shadows soon started applying a lot of pressure to many of my favorite spots. The nail in the coffin for me was after a day of great bass fishing and posting about it, I returned that weekend to flip a few tubes only to find 30 white buckets in 4-12 foot boats rounded to the brims with smallies.
Also, having my pastime activities broadcasted soon lead to property theft and damage to boot.
I soon started asking myself why put the effort into spelling it all out for those that dont take the time to put any of their own leg work in or for those that simply don't respect the environment. I saw the internet elimating entire learning curves and people were forgeting about what fishing really was and it was becoming more about "catching" than "fishing".
I now only share my fishing experiences with personal friends that are also active anglers. They not only take the time to respectfully work the water themselves, but also understand give and take.
There's just too many lazy keyboard anglers looking for a free ride in my opinion. Its a shame too...because as an angling comunity, there's a lot to be gained with a controled public media.
Some think it's a case of a few bad apples....but I've seen the lurking stats, and believe me, the bad apples way out number the good. It's just the way it is.
Just my take on things.
Even though I enjoyed helping folks enjoy a fun weekend of angling, others that lurked in the shadows soon started applying a lot of pressure to many of my favorite spots. The nail in the coffin for me was after a day of great bass fishing and posting about it, I returned that weekend to flip a few tubes only to find 30 white buckets in 4-12 foot boats rounded to the brims with smallies.
Also, having my pastime activities broadcasted soon lead to property theft and damage to boot.
I soon started asking myself why put the effort into spelling it all out for those that dont take the time to put any of their own leg work in or for those that simply don't respect the environment. I saw the internet elimating entire learning curves and people were forgeting about what fishing really was and it was becoming more about "catching" than "fishing".
I now only share my fishing experiences with personal friends that are also active anglers. They not only take the time to respectfully work the water themselves, but also understand give and take.
There's just too many lazy keyboard anglers looking for a free ride in my opinion. Its a shame too...because as an angling comunity, there's a lot to be gained with a controled public media.
Some think it's a case of a few bad apples....but I've seen the lurking stats, and believe me, the bad apples way out number the good. It's just the way it is.
Just my take on things.
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Swamp-Donkey
- Bronze Participant
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:03 pm
- Location: Kemptville, Ontario
- Contact:
Really interesting thread here guys. I'm glad I looked in here! I'm not in here often.
My feelings on this are very mixed on this issue. As a rule, I won't tell anyone about my little "honey holes". These are a dozen or so lakes, mostly smaller bodies of water. Through years of trial and error, thousands of km's on my trucks, and hundreds and hundreds of hours spent on the water, I have compiled a list of fabulous fishing waters. My search never ends, each year I try to fish 5 or 6 new, small out of the way , off the beaten path sorta lakes. There are only a small number of my closest friends that I will share these waters with. Even then, its with the understanding; they tell nobody where we were. Yes, I really am that tight-lipped about it. One of these lakes, last year on opening day, kicked out just over 50, yes 50 Largemouths with a few real hawgs all before noon. To top it off, all we had to throw was scum frogs and spinnerbaits!
Every fish was safely released. At the launch ramp, we met a couple of guys that were just pulling in. One of them asked us, "how was the fishin?". I said,"awful". They got in thier truck and left. Did I lose sleep?,, Not a wink!
As far as larger, more accessable waters go I am much more liberal with my advice. larger waterbodies are able to sustain much more signifigant fishing pressure, and fish harvest. So revealing hot baits, techniques or location wont usually have as much impact on these waters. There is just more surface area and crowds seem more dispursed on these larger lakes/rivers. So giving advice or placing posts regarding these waters doesn't really bother me too much.
Anyway thats the way I feel on this topic, I know some will agree and some won't. But I guess thats what makes these forums so great!
My feelings on this are very mixed on this issue. As a rule, I won't tell anyone about my little "honey holes". These are a dozen or so lakes, mostly smaller bodies of water. Through years of trial and error, thousands of km's on my trucks, and hundreds and hundreds of hours spent on the water, I have compiled a list of fabulous fishing waters. My search never ends, each year I try to fish 5 or 6 new, small out of the way , off the beaten path sorta lakes. There are only a small number of my closest friends that I will share these waters with. Even then, its with the understanding; they tell nobody where we were. Yes, I really am that tight-lipped about it. One of these lakes, last year on opening day, kicked out just over 50, yes 50 Largemouths with a few real hawgs all before noon. To top it off, all we had to throw was scum frogs and spinnerbaits!
Every fish was safely released. At the launch ramp, we met a couple of guys that were just pulling in. One of them asked us, "how was the fishin?". I said,"awful". They got in thier truck and left. Did I lose sleep?,, Not a wink!
As far as larger, more accessable waters go I am much more liberal with my advice. larger waterbodies are able to sustain much more signifigant fishing pressure, and fish harvest. So revealing hot baits, techniques or location wont usually have as much impact on these waters. There is just more surface area and crowds seem more dispursed on these larger lakes/rivers. So giving advice or placing posts regarding these waters doesn't really bother me too much.
Anyway thats the way I feel on this topic, I know some will agree and some won't. But I guess thats what makes these forums so great!
Well said there RJ and Markus. Have really noticed the drop in Location of spots and prime areas. It doesn't take long for word to spread and numbers to jump right in. Have always enjoyed both your reports and Moosebunks. I just find way to much in reports that are IMHO just average fish. I feel if you get a MOUNT special write it up but don't locate. Knowing all three of you I feel priviledged to know that our resources are in good hands and that you guys are like Tom Sawyer and HuckleBerry Finn always exploring NEW WATERS.
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wolfe
- Diamond Participant
- Posts: 7588
- Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:04 am
- Location: Marietta, NY & Wolfe Lake, Ont.
I think there are great points to both sides, but do agree that some caution has to be exercised with regard to exposing too many details in our reports. The whole lurking (for lack of a better word) for the sole purpose of obtaining high yielding locales is something I never even considered for most of my membership here. It's just something that I've started to hear about recently, and I guess that's another reflection of my naivity, because I would never dream of doing that.
I do recognize that there are many young (and old!), honest newbie fishermen and ladies that just want to LEARN. I've received so many good tips from people on this site that I try to help out others when I feel my experiences are worth sharing.
I have helped a few people by PMs with regard to actual spots to fish, but am not sure I would do that anymore unless I had established some sort of feeling for that person's fishing ethics. In my opinion, I'd be more likely to give them details if I saw over time that they were primarily C&R.
W.
I do recognize that there are many young (and old!), honest newbie fishermen and ladies that just want to LEARN. I've received so many good tips from people on this site that I try to help out others when I feel my experiences are worth sharing.
I have helped a few people by PMs with regard to actual spots to fish, but am not sure I would do that anymore unless I had established some sort of feeling for that person's fishing ethics. In my opinion, I'd be more likely to give them details if I saw over time that they were primarily C&R.
W.
This is an interesting thread with a lot of different issues.
I don't see anything wrong with lurking. Some people lurk - it's their personality. Maybe they'd just rather be quiet, maybe they're paranoid about being identified, maybe too shy to say anything, maybe they're greedy with information, prolly lots of reasons for lurking. But I think it's within their right, and I'm ok with it.
About scouring the site for information about where to fish, I don't see anything wrong with that either. If you regret posting some stuff, go and remove it -- you can edit your postings (I think? please correct me if I'm wrong).
There's lots of good information in this site's previous postings, not only about where to fish but how. As a newbie angler it's very useful to me. I frequently use the archived posts to do research. It's a great site, the only message board I use.
Makes it a lot easier to catch fish when someone has told you where they are. Makes it easier when electronics show you where the fish are too, right? Is everybody ok with the use of fishfinders? It has provided thousands of people with specific information about where the fish are.
Yeah, I'm ok with fishfinders, by the way. Except that I don't have one.
I gotta hurry up because the baby just woke up...
So yeah information is powerful, and it's dangerous in the wrong hands. And so you should be careful about what you say in a public forum. Just gotta keep talking about conservation too. Greed is greed. Fishfinders don't make you greedy, neither does knowledge of good spots. If you practice C&R, then good -- if you've got a reputation for practicing C&R then I'll share my location info with you, privately.
k, gotta go. sorry for long winded post.
scott
I don't see anything wrong with lurking. Some people lurk - it's their personality. Maybe they'd just rather be quiet, maybe they're paranoid about being identified, maybe too shy to say anything, maybe they're greedy with information, prolly lots of reasons for lurking. But I think it's within their right, and I'm ok with it.
About scouring the site for information about where to fish, I don't see anything wrong with that either. If you regret posting some stuff, go and remove it -- you can edit your postings (I think? please correct me if I'm wrong).
There's lots of good information in this site's previous postings, not only about where to fish but how. As a newbie angler it's very useful to me. I frequently use the archived posts to do research. It's a great site, the only message board I use.
Makes it a lot easier to catch fish when someone has told you where they are. Makes it easier when electronics show you where the fish are too, right? Is everybody ok with the use of fishfinders? It has provided thousands of people with specific information about where the fish are.
Yeah, I'm ok with fishfinders, by the way. Except that I don't have one.
I gotta hurry up because the baby just woke up...
So yeah information is powerful, and it's dangerous in the wrong hands. And so you should be careful about what you say in a public forum. Just gotta keep talking about conservation too. Greed is greed. Fishfinders don't make you greedy, neither does knowledge of good spots. If you practice C&R, then good -- if you've got a reputation for practicing C&R then I'll share my location info with you, privately.
k, gotta go. sorry for long winded post.
scott
What exactly is lurking?
Is it reading this board and never posting your own reports? Is that what it is? Then I'd say RJ that you have become a lurker. As have many of the other folks that used to post here with great freqeuncy.
The internet is a communication medium to the masses. If you post detailed information on who, what, where, when, and how - if you don't expect others to go there and do the same, shame on you. Simple as that. What exactly did you think was going to happen?
Some people post, some people read. Get a group of people togther, chances are 20% do 80% of the talking and 80% do the listening.
It used to be that certain attitudes on this board, IMHO, caused lurking. Why? Because if a newbie ever posted something that wasn't 100% aligned with the regs, or a fish improperly held or something of that nature, there would be a multi page thread about it that stopped short of rounding up a posse to hunt the newbie down.
Mick
Is it reading this board and never posting your own reports? Is that what it is? Then I'd say RJ that you have become a lurker. As have many of the other folks that used to post here with great freqeuncy.
The internet is a communication medium to the masses. If you post detailed information on who, what, where, when, and how - if you don't expect others to go there and do the same, shame on you. Simple as that. What exactly did you think was going to happen?
Some people post, some people read. Get a group of people togther, chances are 20% do 80% of the talking and 80% do the listening.
It used to be that certain attitudes on this board, IMHO, caused lurking. Why? Because if a newbie ever posted something that wasn't 100% aligned with the regs, or a fish improperly held or something of that nature, there would be a multi page thread about it that stopped short of rounding up a posse to hunt the newbie down.
Mick