MUSKY.....THROUGH THE ICE ????

[Spoonman]

I can think of all kind of responses to the closet lawyers and wannabe conservation officers that are interpreting or quoting the law on this site.

Even though you're not quoting me directly, I can take a hint. I am an obvious newbie... and after a quick search, I now realize that this type of topic is one of those cyclical controversies. On balance, I figure my contribution to this thread (regarding regulations) amounts to little more than repetitiveness. I have apparently prolonged to some degree an unwelcome discussion, and have thus retracted my attempt at clarifying some muddied waters.

I will not, however, apologize for expressing an interest in the sustainability of our fisheries. I quoted the regs not as some kind of "attack" on Suddsy's original post, but as a result of the various questions that came out of the woodwork afterward. In case it still isn't clear, no offense intended to anyone.

Lesson learned.

Fortunately a few (very few) made the effort to simply respond to the question and for that I thank you.

I hope you noticed that I took the time to do so in my original response.

I personally am seriously considering if this site is right for me.

If expressing an interest in proper fish handling and, more generally, the health of our fisheries is really this unwelcome, I'm inclined to ask myself the same question.

[Tip-up]

This type of behavious drives good members away from the site and discourages too many existing members from even wanting to post on the site. I know.....because although I try to contribute to the site I personally am seriously considering if this site is right for me.

I agree with ya... Threads like this one are not too good to the eyes of a new member

That's why I NEVER get invovled with these discussions, although this one does bring up a few good points!

[Lookinforlunkers]

Spoonman you have no need to appologize to anyone, you start a thread about catching an ILLEGAL fish and people are gonna react.

[Suddsy]

When I read the response that I posted last night I realized that I may have done what I was asking other people not to do. I was responding negatively and apparently furthering the debate.
My goal was simply to try and put forward the message that Fish-Hawk is a great site when we are focussing on the positive and supporting one another. When there are issues such as taking a picture of an OOS fish it is very appropriate to point out that the site does not allow posting of these pictures and the person making the post can be referred to the well established and very well explained rule posted on the site. However when it keeps getting repeated over and over again and often in an accusatory manner then it starts to take on a negative overtone of I am right and you are wrong and the dreaded debate and disagreement begins. It would be of much more value to the site to treat each other with respect and accept the fact that we will not always agree and that often time our opinions are just that.. they are our opinions. Not many people are going to take kindly to finding themselves feeling that they are being negatively judged by their peers based upon another person viewpoint or opinion whether that opinion is well informed or not. Neither is there much pleasure in finding a legitimate fishing question you posted degenerate into people taking pot-shots at one another and creating hard feelings between the membership. I found it interesting that I received a number of PMs from members that were very supportive but more importantly felt the site was all too often negative in its responses and that it discouraged people from posting on the site. Someone pointed out that this forum is a public forum and indicated that participants should accept anything that comes at them. I will have to agree to disagree with that. To participate on this forum you must first obtain membership that grants you the privilege to post questions and comments and to provide respectful debate. This membership is however accompanied by rules, such as not posting pictures of OOS fish, and being respectful of other members.

Because the post seems to have taken on a life of its own with suggestions that it is based upon catching an ILLEGAL fish, etc.etc. I will try one last time to put some perspective on the post that I made.

I did not catch an ILLEGAL fish.

It is NOT ILLEGAL to catch an out of season fish if that OOS fish is not being targeted by the angler.

I inadvertently caught an OOS fish while jigging for walleye. This is fully acknowledged by the MNR as an unavoidable occurrence while angling.

I posted a question on the site asking if it is normal to catch muskie through the ice.

I did not post a picture of that fish on this site.

Two posts later I was asked if I had any pictures of the fish.

Another two posts later it was very appropriately and positively pointed out by Rex Mundi that pictures of the fish cannot be posted on the site and he provided a reference and a link to the Fish-Hawk rules on this issue. (Thank you Rex Mundi!)

I agreed with him.

Aside from responding to the original questions about whether or not it was normal to catch muskie through the ice I think that at this point it was probably enough said on the issue of OOS pictures. Particularly in light of the very clear rules and well stated Fish-Hawk position about pictures of OOS fish. However, approximately fifty posts later (many of them very positive and appropriate), we are still debating the point, mostly in a negative manner. I might be wrong, but I just don't think that this is necessary and I don't think the site benefits from it. I would like to encourage all of us to try and think about the benefits we can provide this site if we share our experiences and expertise in a positive manner that encourages participation on the site and endeavour to try and consider how far we wish to continue debates that have degenerated beyond the point of being productive. If I have offended anyone in trying to respond to comments on this post I apoligize, it was definitely not my intent.

[wolfe]

If Suddsy had targeted a musky through the ice (or during any other closed season) then he should be lambasted (that's NOT lamb-basted, Badger Shark).

The OOS pictures are going to be a source of varied interpretation & hot debate until (if ever!) the MNR puts concise & explicit regulations in print. Maybe something like "taking a photograph of any OOS fish is strictly prohibited".

Meanwhile, people are going to read the reg's the way their own concious or desires lean, and both sides can argue 'til blue in the face.

Hate to play Sweden here, which seems to be happening more as I am perhaps mellowing. I have see-sawed on this topic myself and I think it's good to read some of the points and weed out the insultive crap. I'd be inclined to say a very quick pic will not influence the fish in a detrimental way -- BUT 2, 3, 4 pic's, passing the fish around while getting the camera out, measuring it, eyeballing it, exclaiming over it....running it over to the next hut or baitshop where there IS a camera...well....you see my point? Unfortunately, I think there might be a few too many who if given a green light to take pic's will indeed not treat the OOS any different than an IS fish during the photo shoot. I know I wouldn't do this, and maybe you folks reading this wouldn't, but some would. And that's "some" too many.

How can the MNR actually say "a quick pic with a ready camera is OK" and somehow that becomes a definitive line that's enforceable between that scenario and the next one where the guy lays the fish down on the ice for a few seconds to grab the camera and then takes 2 pics?

I don't know if I'm explaining myself very well. The point seems clear to me in my head, but then lots of things do and people look at me like "HUH?!"

Anyway, Suddsy, do stick around. I've been on the receiving end of a crucifixion and I'm still here. But we do need to respect the rules that FH.Net has in writing and that's no OOS pics.

Suddsy did NOT post an OOS pic. Play nice. That's what I tell my boys.

W.

[Eli]

As for open water seasons, wolfman made a comment regarding catching a lunker bass during closed season and snapping a photo. He claimed the extra time required would not harm the fish. No it may not harm the fish in your hand while youre smiling for the camera. But do you have any clue as to what is happening to the nest/eggs/fry that it was guarding?
I would really like to hear a justification for this, I really would.
A school of hungery rockbass or bluegills can devour a bass' nest in less than a minute.

Well, I suppose my justification is that I don't use one of these:

when I photograph fish. Again, if your partner is there and ready with a modern camera, then there is no reason why a picture cannot be taken the second the fish is boated. Like I said, if done right, this takes seconds. In fact, this is how I always photograph my catches - minimum time out of the water.

Btw, this has never actually happened to me, because what few OOS fish I have caught have all been nowhere near photo-worthy.

--Wolfman out.

[MuskieWannabe]

Well, to get back to the original question about catching muskies through the ice, I am pretty sure it is legal in some parts of the states and have seen many pictures of people pulling them up. I am not sure where abouts it may be legal but I have seen many pictures of it being done and just assumed. I would think it were normal, I mean muskies still eat in the winter so why wouldn't they hit a bait? Seems only natural.

I've caught muskies in some pretty weird places and times so I never think that catching a muskie is weird. I figure if they are in the body of water I'm fishing, they can hit any time, any day; rain or snow; sunlight or darkness...muskies hit when you least expect it, unless you're always expecting it!

Cheers,

MuskieWannabe

[g unis]

the problem i seem to have is the terms poacher. i wish the user would do a word definition search.. the rest is old news gang. lets move on.

[Bobber]

OK let's call this one folks.

For those who are new and had not seen this kind of post before, we get these every year during particular times of the year. It's like clockwork actually, so please, don't judge this site and its members on a few controvertial posts. There are some of us who have seen this before and it's kinda like beating a dead horse, and well lets just call it round 8 or something like that. I'd hate to see a few undersirable things over power all the great things that go on here. If that's the case, then we all might as well sell our computers and just so "no" to the Internet.

Thanks for the comments all. Suddsy, thanks for releasing the fish unharmed, it'll be there next time and hopefully during the season. Richard, thanks for sharing your e-mail from the ministry. I actually recieved a similar one, not so many words, but to the same effect. And for the others who responded regarding our policy on OOS fish pictures, I thank you for understanding and supporting, and if you don't understand, send me a PM and we can have a private discussion on it.

The lesson here....You've heard the arguments.....the choice is yours.

Cheers,