Sad story out of Hamilton this morning.

Post by **Fluffycarpguy** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:28 am

Steve,

I find it funny to read your posts on this topic, after I recalled reading this fine write-up on another forum.

http://www.billsbaitandtackle.ca/module ... light=carp

How long did it take you to stop smiling after landing that nice big carp in Hamilton Harbour? Or maybe it was all the toxins from the fish leaching into your hands and creating an involuntary muscle spasm in you face? Not sure.

Either way, I'm starting to think you're more of a hyprocrite than a "Pro-Angler".

Post by **jwilly** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:48 am

Watch these videos.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS7zkTnQVaM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ChwJiKKBdA

Seeing is believing. I was astounded when I saw this. It looks like it may already be too late.

Post by **steve-hamilton** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:06 am

fluffy, keep looking at that site. You'll see i fish for every species the bay has to offer. which is why i understand the need ....

i'll smile for every fish i catch. i respect our fisheries like i respect our nature....

you'll find lots of pictures of me fishing for carp...i'm not some kind of carp hater....far from it.

however, i understand the ecosystem of hamilton harbour....and there is only so much biomass.

Post by **Eli** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:05 am

OK Steve. You've made your point. I agree that something needed to be done about those carp.

I fish for carp quite a bit in the spring and fall. When I catch one, what would you recommend I do with it? I mean, I'm not just going to throw it on shore to die, I'm not gonna eat it, and apparently releasing it isn't a good idea...so I'm a bit at a lose as to what to do.

Post by **Fluffycarpguy** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:26 am

I guess we'll all just continue to sing the praises of all the other "more desireable" exotic species that were transplanted in our waters then. Bass, Chinook and Coho Salmon, Brown Trout, Rainbow Trout, and many other species have been stocked by humans and are not in the least bit native to Lake Ontario.

We'll continue to blame tle lowly carp for all of the problems of our watersheds, while ignoring the fact that 99.9% of the damage was done by humans. The introduction of Carp into a body water that was already on the verge of self destructing, was merely the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.

Although Steve has posted some great propaganda surrounding the RBG's efforts in Hamilton, I think most people will continue to beleive what the RBG is constantly pumping out of their propaganda machine. After all, alot of high paid individuals would be out of work if they admitted their error in blaming Carp as the sole problem surrounding Cootes Paradise.

Just my opinion, and we are all entitled one.

Post by **steve-hamilton** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:29 am

I'd release it.

Of course.

This Hamilton Bay project is a special cercumstance. Your body of water, the carp are probably just fine.....Just because its a carp doesn't make it toxic.....unforunately the carp from Hamilton Bay are.....i'd expect a carp from the St Lawrance to be just fine.....(toxicidy wise)

I still release ALL the carp i catch in the bay. I let the experts do the 'disposing' of the fish. I'd NEVER suggest to ANYONE to simply kill a fish.....(gobies and other such species excluded).

However, i wanted to make clear what is going on in Hamilton Bay. Those fish were not massacared. Instead scientiests are making decisions.....and I will support those decisions....

I'd love to take some pictures to show ya what kind of changes have happened in the last few years....it really is incredible.

If this project is successful, expect to see further changes on other bodies of water....Hamilton Harbour is only a "test" subject

Post by **steve-hamilton** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:30 am

fluffy, you are right.

everyone is entitled to your own opinion.....

at least we have some background regarding RBG's decisions....

Have a good one!

Post by **f_b** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:50 am

Steve I think you're missing the point of this. The fact is the fish and it doesn't matter what species were left to rot on the bank, on a highly used trail. In fact they were discovered by a man with his 8 year old daughter.
If they feel that disposing of them is the best option, take them somewhere else, as if they are as toxic as you claim them to be, wouldn't they kill the other wildlife that are going to eat them, and distroy the plant life in the area, as the toxins seep into the ground?

Post by **steve-hamilton** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:11 pm

as i said, i'm not saying the method of disposal was the best choice....

it was necessary, yes.

was it the best option, no.

i'm sure the RBG and the City of Hamilton would be open to suggestions as to what to do with the carp once they have been taken out of the Carp Cages.

I was defending the need for the carp eradication, and the reasons, and successes, as to why they have done it.

how they did it, well, that is certainly open for debate....and i'm not willing to side with the RBG saying their method was the best.....

i'm not sure what other options they have though......

(from 1995ish until at least 2001, there were big pits dug at each side of the carp barrier, in which they would dump carp into...i bet this pee pee off a lot of folks, which is why they changed that practice.....regardless, the carp are going to be eradicated.....what they are going to do with them are open to debate)

Post by **furious** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:05 pm

Good post Steve, lots of good info to back it up as well. I am glad however that it is a localized problem and not something carp anglers need to worry about all over the province.

I also just love it when people try and argue a point to death. Sometimes those people's opinions are just better kept to themselves. Especially when faced with overwhelming facts and evidence pertaining to an isolated problem.

Post by **Fluffycarpguy** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:40 pm

Anyone can go on the internet and find "lots of good information" about the RBG's stand point on Carp. The fact is, its all just information that their "ecologists" have decided is relevant. I very much doubt that the RBG has a bunch of "scientists" on staff determining the root cause of the water quality problem was a direct result of Carp.

Their mandate has been funded by the taxpayers for over a decade, and we still haven't seen any huge improvements to Cootes Paradise. Its basically just a huge make-work project for a group of people that feel its necessary to butcher a species of fish at their discretion because "They" think its the proper course of action.

The point being raised here is the way the fish were dumped on the bank, and left to rot. If it was 500 pike, trout, bass or Carp, it doesn't make a difference. The way it was done was immoral, and all anglers should be upset by it.

Post by **steve-hamilton** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:58 pm

I very much doubt that the RBG has a bunch of "scientists" on staff determining the root cause of the water quality problem was a direct result of Carp.

McMaster University professors and biologists have done the studies.

Post by **Jackel** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:30 pm

S-H,

Nice fish but I don't see you wearing a Hazmat suit.

I thought these fish were, quote "very very very very very toxic.

So, the Steve- Hamilton moral of the store is, Carp must be killed and if you eat them you will die as well.

As others have said, you are missing the point

Oh yes, and Steve I still can't find where in the guide it says they are toxic and they can't be eaten. Oh, maybe it's because it's NOT IN THERE.

And by the way, if anyone is wondering, Lapoints fish market is waiting for there carp shipment. They also told me they could provide you with a receipe.

Jackel

Post by **Jackel** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:08 pm

FCG,

Ya, I guess you're right. It has nothing to do with the steelmills

only the carp.

Jackel

Post by **steve-hamilton** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:10 pm

Oh yes, and Steve I still can't find where in the guide it says they are toxic and they can't be eaten. Oh, maybe it's because it's NOT IN THERE.

Luckily, most the folks on here read page two where i pasted the consumption guide rating for carp in hamilton bay. can you please explain what 0 means.