Out of Season Fishing is alive and well

[almontefisher]

Yes Trophymuskie, there must be the two of us in Hammond. Been a fishing (bass) nut for 20+ years.
All I can add to this post is, thank god for contentious issues or beliefs, or the FH site would be really boring and it would be a longer winter. People must realize things happen, for the good or the bad in all sports or recreational activities...remember what forced us all into having to get a boaters operator card...careless rich kids from the GTA that were injured or kill due to their stupidity and reckless behaviour on PFC or in boats...now we have evolved to paint all competitive bass anglers with the same brush...but people must remember that we are not weekend anglers, (we put back everything we catch) and for this reason we don't just show up for a tournament on that day, unprepared to compete, as Almontefisher thinks we should, and furthermore, we don’t go out pre fishing and fill the boat or catch every fish we see. We go out and attempt to locate fish in certain areas or structure (not trying to hook them, but have them show themselves...busting on a frog or pick up a bait) and once fish are located, we leave the remaining area alone until the weekend of the tournament. People must remember we put out good money to compete at a higher level, no different then some other sporting activities such as professional golfers, or kayaker do. We all spend time to familiarize ourselves with our respective playing field, to come up with a game plan that will hopefully work the weekend of the competition and get us on the stage or as with golfers play a few rounds on the competition golf course prior to the competition, to determine that best way to get the lowest score on a round, or to determine the best approach to get through a section of fast water in the quickest time in a kayak. Yes the sudden unannounced (last minute) changes in Bass Opening weekend in both provinces over the last couple of years has brought on some controversy, and all around the competitive angler. In all competitive activities, whether horse racing, football or fishing, you will have those individuals that won’t play by the rules (ie per Leferve tournament incident last year). And remember, even though there may be bass boat trailers in the parking lot, doesn’t mean we are all out fishing bass out of season, I don’t even have a rod in the boat, when I’m out looking for fish in the shallows for the following opening weekend tournament. But that’s me...That’s it for me on this topic, and signing off, Frank

Hawg: I did not think that is what you should do..Not being a tourney guy I did not understand the pre-fish which thank you by the way you explained. If the point is to see if fish are there etc I would assume there are no hooks on your pre-fish bait?? Again lack of experience with this stuff. See how a good thread helps inform everyone. Also see how I took hawgs post to heart and learned instead of bashing... I still feel though that if no one pre-fishes you are all on equal ground still.

[beachburger]

I have never pre-fished bass out of season but in season, I often pre-fish the shallows with a zara spook or pop-r with no hooks. If fishing deeper water, I will use a barbless hook. I once spent a day pre-fishing with a 4" piece of dowel painted white and a small eyehook in the nose. I prefer to catch them on the day that matters, not on the pre-fish.

Not having a pre-fish does not mean everyone is on equal ground. Every tournament has boats who will be on their "home water", boats who are fishing the water for the first time and the majority somewhere in between. People who have never fished the water are at a distinct disadvantage to those what have several spots they can hit. This is not to say "home water" boats will win but they will have a good shot at cashing a cheque whereas a first-time boat has almost zero chance given the quality of anglers in most tournaments.

[almontefisher]

I have never pre-fished bass out of season but in season, I often pre-fish the shallows with a zara spook or pop-r with no hooks. If fishing deeper water, I will use a barbless hook. I once spent a day pre-fishing with a 4" piece of dowel painted white and a small eyehook in the nose. I prefer to catch them on the day that matters, not on the pre-fish.

Not having a pre-fish does not mean everyone is on equal ground. Every tournament has boats who will be on their "home water", boats who are fishing the water for the first time and the majority somewhere in between. People who have never fished the water are at a distinct disadvantage to those what have several spots they can hit. This is not to say "home water" boats will win but they will have a good shot at cashing a cheque whereas a first-time boat has almost zero chance given the quality of anglers in most tournaments.

Thanks Beach...never thought about home water rights...That would give an advantage for sure. So once you find these locations you GPS them and save the waypoints for the tourney day.

Still dont feel it is good to change the opener for a business opportunity but it is Quebec and they can do whatever they want I guess. Just hope it does not set a precident....

[mike64]

Just wondering if any of the high profile tournament angler who have signed up, have commented on this subject concerning the B1 tournament. I wonder what their take is, on all of this.

Thanks,
Mike

[Mr. T.]

Just wondering if any of the high profile tournament angler who have signed up, have commented on this subject concerning the B1 tournament. I wonder what their take is, on all of this.

Thanks,
Mike

Who do you consider a high profile tournament angler because here's another thread with Charles Sim replying,

http://www.fish-hawk.net/hawktalk/viewt ... &&start=30

[marc Thorpe]

I found a piece where Charles shared his views

Charles_Sim
Site Admin
Inscrit le: 20 Fév 2006
Messages: 6

MessagePosté le: Mar Juin 10, 2008 9:10 pm Sujet du message: Another year and the same stuff is going on.... Répondre en citant
So I've heard rumblings about people practicing for Lac St. Louis, and I have to say it really enrages me. You guys who are practicing before the season opens represent everything that is bad about the sport I love.

This is a sport about rules, professionalism, and integrity, yet people still go out, and say they're Pike fishing, say the have hooks bent, etc. The fact is these people are breaking laws, and in my opinion cheating. If you want to look around, put your rods away and look around.

Not only are they breaking the rules, but they are gaining a competitive advantage over teams who respect the laws and don't target Bass before the season opens.

I know it's an annual problem, and everyone says nothing can be done about it, but something should be done. I'd like to recommend now, and I will make a motion at the next meeting that there no longer be an event on openning weekend.

It amazes me at the upper echelon of this sport guys will report themselves to a TD to be DQ'd in $100,000 events if they discover they've broken a rule, and at other levels guy will break provincial laws for $2000.

Way to represent yourself and your sponsors.

[steve-hamilton]

tunes change when rules change.

[CNs]

I found a piece where Charles shared his views

Charles_Sim
Site Admin
Inscrit le: 20 Fév 2006
Messages: 6

MessagePosté le: Mar Juin 10, 2008 9:10 pm Sujet du message: Another year and the same stuff is going on.... Répondre en citant
So I've heard rumblings about people practicing for Lac St. Louis, and I have to say it really enrages me. You guys who are practicing before the season opens represent everything that is bad about the sport I love.

This is a sport about rules, professionalism, and integrity, yet people still go out, and say they're Pike fishing, say the have hooks bent, etc. The fact is these people are breaking laws, and in my opinion cheating. If you want to look around, put your rods away and look around.

Not only are they breaking the rules, but they are gaining a competitive advantage over teams who respect the laws and don't target Bass before the season opens.

I know it's an annual problem, and everyone says nothing can be done about it, but something should be done. I'd like to recommend now, and I will make a motion at the next meeting that there no longer be an event on openning weekend.

It amazes me at the upper echelon of this sport guys will report themselves to a TD to be DQ'd in $100,000 events if they discover they've broken a rule, and at other levels guy will break provincial laws for $2000.

Way to represent yourself and your sponsors.

WOW! Talk about misleading!

You had to go to another forum to find this! Generally when offering a quote, it is considered proper and ethical to: not only quote the author, but the source/document as well. And to ensure that the quote is relevant to the question!

The question was:

Just wondering if any of the high profile tournament angler who have signed up, have commented on this subject concerning the B1 tournament. I wonder what their take is, on all of this.

Thanks,
Mike

The quote you have taken was about a local Bass Club and their tournament schedule and anglers. It was posted last June.

By quoting out of context you are also inferring that Charles has either changed his mind about tournaments on opening day or has changed his ethics.

Would it not have been proper and ethical to:

a) Speak to Charles first before posting?
b) Let people know where you were taking the quote from?

And for the record (these are important word "for the record")

I am a club Bass Angler (Ottawa Valley South Bassmasters).
I am not fishing in the B1 (I do not believe I can compete at that level).
I do know the organizers. They have a wealth of Bass tournament knowledge and experience. They also have a wealth of event organizational knowledge and experience.
I cannot speak for them or Charles, as all my knowledge of the events is from what I have read on this board. I will not speculate on what they have done.
I also can't speak for the Quebec ministry.

Oh and here is the link to the post. Just so everyone can read the post in the context in which it was written and the response it got (hey that's inportant too).

http://www.quebecbassmasters.com/phpBB2 ... highlight=

[beachburger]

Well said ChampionNorm.

[jwhite]

Well said ChampionNorm.

Good stuff Norm. I remember reading that quote from Charles a year ago and remember that the discussion revolved around OOS fishing.

Fishing the B1 and practice days is not OOS and no laws will be broken so how is this quote even relevant. Talk about grasping at straws.

[hawg hunter]

well ive read alot of your posts and theres some good points here for sure but in my own thoughts this pre-fishing idea should not be allowed,all it will do is open up all waters to this slaughter if a tournament falls on opening day.just think how many others (tournament directors)would try this very same idea,things like this spread like wild fire.

im sad to say being from belleville and fishing quinte just about every day ive seen a select few anglers and most are tournament anglers (not all but a few)fishing bass out of season funny thing is these lads are the fist ones to complain about this practice ,too faced poachers i'd say.

just Hawgs own 2 cents

[almontefisher]

Norm: Glad you brought everything into light but when someone posts ( and I do not care if it is on the bathroom wall) it is public info. Also he does state that he wanted to make it mandatory that no tourneys ar run on opening day... As per his quote

" I know it's an annual problem, and everyone says nothing can be done about it, but something should be done. I'd like to recommend now, and I will make a motion at the next meeting that there no longer be an event on openning weekend.
"

I will assume this means any tourney not just the one he was speaking of. Now having said that this guy definatly has the ability to change his mind if he was presented with or told of some info to justify the change, tourney etc. So I guess what I am saying is people do change thier minds and he may have...but you can not say that for one tourney and not them all.

[CNs]

well ive read alot of your posts and theres some good points here for sure but in my own thoughts this pre-fishing idea should not be allowed,all it will do is open up all waters to this slaughter if a tournament falls on opening day.just think how many others (tournament directors)would try this very same idea,things like this spread like wild fire.

im sad to say being from belleville and fishing quinte just about every day ive seen a select few anglers and most are tournament anglers (not all but a few)fishing bass out of season funny thing is these lads are the fist ones to complain about this practice ,too faced poachers i'd say.

just Hawgs own 2 cents

HH be more specific. What should not be allowed? Pre-fishing for any tournament? Or just for this one?

Lets realize that:

1) The quebec ministry did not post the opening day change to the regulations until after the B1 Tournament directors announced the tournament. They based the dates on the season opening at the same time as the previous year.

Once they found out of the change they implemented rules to prevent pre-fishing. The rule was you would not be allowed on the water with ANY fishing rod in your boat before the season opened. Realizing that this would be almost unenforcible. they opted to petition the Quebec ministry to move the opening day back to WHERE IT WAS THE PREVIOUS YEAR!

As a compromise the Ministry decided to allow a CATCH AND RELEASE season before opening day on the tournament waters. NOT CATCH AND KEEP season.

It is important to note that all ministries adjust rulings on an ad hoc basis. Although Marc Thorpe would like everyone to believe that some amiss in the petition, he has no proof nor does he have anything to back up his own statements about breaking the law (pre-fishing) harm to the fisheries etc.

(Marc you have never posted any findings, studies, reports or even psychic readings as to why this change is bad and have consistently refused to do so).

Tournaments when run properly do not "massacre" the fisheries any more than the Joe Weekender who goes out and catches his/her limit and then some, and consumes them.

If you look at the results from last year for the renegade series - out of 2,238 bass caught - 33 were brought in dead.

Can you imagine all the Joe Weekenders who would have kept their limits? Which is 6 fish each not 5 per team. Is there mortality after release? Yes

How many Joe Weekenders know the proper release techniques.
How many of fish the Joe Weekenders release die as well?

I do not know nor do I have any studies to offer proof so I won't speculate.

Now as for fishing bass out of season can you prove that they are actually targeting bass?
How do you know they are tournament anglers?

Is it because they are in a bass boat?

Are you assuming that they must be fishing for bass and fish tournaments?

I have seen many guys in aluminum rigs throwing spinnerbaits in the weeds (pre bass season) claiming they were pike fishing. Nobody bothers them. Yet when a bass boat floats by its "hey bass season isn't open yet - a$$hole!" regardless if they are fishing or not.

Fair? no!

Reality - Yes!

[beachburger]

I have seen many guys in aluminum rigs throwing spinnerbaits in the weeds (pre bass season) claiming they were pike fishing

They can also claim they were fishing for muskie. Funny how some muskie guides who claim to be concerned about bass spawning don't seem to be as concerned as long as muskie season is open.

[CNs]

Norm: Glad you brought everything into light but when someone posts ( and I do not care if it is on the bathroom wall) it is public info. Also he does state that he wanted to make it mandatory that no tourneys ar run on opening day... As per his quote

" I know it's an annual problem, and everyone says nothing can be done about it, but something should be done. I'd like to recommend now, and I will make a motion at the next meeting that there no longer be an event on openning weekend.
"

I will assume this means any tourney not just the one he was speaking of. Now having said that this guy definatly has the ability to change his mind if he was presented with or told of some info to justify the change, tourney etc. So I guess what I am saying is people do change thier minds and he may have...but you can not say that for one tourney and not them all.

AlmonteFisher:

I believe that Charles was specifically talking about the Quebec Bassmasters tournaments - the club he was involved with.
Knowing Charles, he probably would agree that all clubs should NOT hold a tourney on opening day. Something that I agree with as well. But I can't speak for him! And holding this opinion is not mutually exclusive with entering them. It is a starting point for change.

Most ethical Bass Tournament anglers will not fish for bass out of season. But there are those individuals who just cannot follow the rules - its win at almost all costs. Happens in fishing happens in baseball happens in NASCAR and on and on.

Its why all sports have officials, referees judges etc. Its to level the playing field for all competitors, and enforce rules.