Out of Season Fishing is alive and well

[almontefisher]

AlmonteFisher:

I believe that Charles was specifically talking about the Quebec Bassmasters tournaments - the club he was involved with.
Knowing Charles, he probably would agree that all clubs should NOT hold a tourney on opening day. Something that I agree with as well. But I can't speak for him! And holding this opinion is not mutually exclusive with entering them. It is a starting point for change.

Most ethical Bass Tournament anglers will not fish for bass out of season. But there are those individuals who just cannot follow the rules - its win at almost all costs. Happens in fishing happens in baseball happens in NASCAR and on and on.

Its why all sports have officials, referees judges etc. Its to level the playing field for all competitors, and enforce rules.

See this is a non aggresive informative reply to a post. Thanks again Norm for keeping this as it should.

[RJ]

Sure are interested in this Norm for someone who isn't fishing the event...

Joined the Cheerleading staff have ya?...

RJ

[Charles_Sim]

... got a few calls and emails letting me know that my values are being questioned here... I'm not sure that they are, but I'll throw some personal facts out there anyway.

- I oppose targeting fish that are out of season...that is one of the reasons I travel to places where fish are in season.

- I have no issues with events on opening weekend.... IF people will respect the regs and not target fish before the season. Not only is it illegal, it's unfair to those that participate in the event and respect the law. It's unfortunate that there are some people that will bend/break the law.

If anyone has specfic questions for me.... please email me.

As for the B1... I believe life is about adjusting to the situations presented to you, I applaud the B1 and the MFNR for making the adjustments to the situation. Now some B1 facts as I know them...

- date set based on opening season of the last 6 years or so giving a full week of open season.

- dates get published by MFRN...opening changed to day before B1

- B1 rule adjusted stating competitors cannot be on the water with rods before the openner...YEAH for B1 for trying to limit the possiblity of targeting OOS... I loved the adjustment! And planned on being on the water without rods.

- B1 took appropriate steps to request an adjustment to the regulation.

- Adjustment granted,,,for everyone... to almost what the season was last year... YEAH for B1 for being proactive and taking the proper steps... YEAH for the MFRN for being flexible.

Again..we're talking about 4 days of Catch and Release here.

Oh and Marc... thanks for the old Quote...what was your goal in doing that? I think it just showed that I oppose OOS fishing...

Charles
www.CharlesSim.com

[CNs]

Sure are interested in this Norm for someone who isn't fishing the event...

Joined the Cheerleading staff have ya?...

RJ

Not really RJ. Just fed up with all the mis-information, posturing and holier than thou attitudes of some of the posters on here.

As I previously posted, I know the organizers and some of the competitors. If that makes me a cheerleader - great. All I have attempted to do is find out what's bugging Marc Thorpe.

[marc Thorpe]

Hi Norm and Charles
I only posted what you said Charles which was confusing to what you posted on the B1 thread.
The question was if any known anglers had weighed in,you did on 2 site even though it was last year that quote was made by yourself,it is very contradictory to what you previously mentioned considering the new practice period change.

I have to admit,I am confused about your position,your against OOS fishing but not against having the season opened prematurely to regs established by the QMNR.
QMNR was not flexible in this case,they were un-informed about resource issues,this is what needs to be brought forth for a proper decision.
I agree they went about it through due process which is what I am doing

You explained yourself very well,tks
BTW congrats on your up-coming season,I trully wish you the best of luck.
I think you will represent Canadian Bass fishing very well

Norm and all ,in due time I will share the letter of revision with the public,whether the QMNR upholds current dates or not.

it has nothing to do with the event,its has to do with the resource and regs established,nothing more

"Its why all sports have officials, referees judges etc. Its to level the playing field for all competitors, and enforce rules."

I really like this quote,does it mean the organizer has the right to have the rules changed or bent in favor of his event?
If we follow this adage,I would consider the answer to be no

Norm ,you really want to know what bothers me about this, guys who participate in these events are supposed to be ambassadors to the sport,which for the last 20 years it has been done well by many.
When ambassadors to the sport have rules changed in their favor,I question and so should you question the image or persona this portrays to the greater angling public in regards this this event,most importantly the resource?

When an organizer makes such a requisition,I question his knowledge about resource and his interest in the resource.

be good
marc

[CNs]

Hi Norm and Charles

it has nothing to do with the event,its has to do with the resource and regs established,nothing more

So that means that the regs can never change? The minstry changes the regs ever year. Do we really know why they change them? Can we trust government scientists any more than any one else?

Again you mention the resource and make it sound as if you have a wealth of research. If so please share it.

I appreciate that you are following a process, b ut I still question your motives as you are still hiding behind this due process.

"Its why all sports have officials, referees judges etc. Its to level the playing field for all competitors, and enforce rules."

I really like this quote,does it mean the organizer has the right to have the rules changed or bent in favor of his event?

What it means that every gets a chance to play. It means that everyone including you has a right to petition the ministry to effect a change to the regulations.

And lets understand that the ministry is not there to JUST protect the resource from man's intrusions. It is also there to ensure that everyone - including bass tournament anglers, musky guides and their clientele can enjoy and prosper from the resource. So if that means adjusting the regs to allow an event to be "successful" then what really is the harm. It is not like they moved the date to a time it has never been opened. and its not like they have said this is the permanent opening date.

Using the term get the rules bent implies that something underhanded or less than legal has occurred. [/quote]

Norm ,you really want to know what bothers me about this, guys who participate in these events are supposed to be ambassadors to the sport,which for the last 20 years it has been done well by many.
When ambassadors to the sport have rules changed in their favor,I question and so should you question the image or persona this portrays to the greater angling public in regards this this event,most importantly the resource?

So it really is the fact that there is a tournament at the start of musky season that bothers you? Has nothing to do with the resource?

If you and I (and all the other hawk talkers) had not been so vocal on this topic the public and angling public would probably not know about or even care.

You really need to explain how this will affect the resource. I don't think you can.

When an organizer makes such a requisition,I question his knowledge about resource and his interest in the resource.

As we all should. Yet when I question your knowledge of the resource and interest, you obfuscate; refuse to cite any source, reference etc.

I have questioned your motives. I know the motives of the organizers. They want a successful tournament, and if they make some cash well you an understand being in business.

I have beaten this horse to death.

Marc, I think you have a hidden agenda that has nothing to do with the resource but more to your persona and business. How or why this tourney will affect you, and it really has been all about you, remains to be seen.


Good Luck

[Jebby]

do i really need to dig up the 12 thread again

[hawg hunter]

well ive read alot of your posts and theres some good points here for sure but in my own thoughts this pre-fishing idea should not be allowed,all it will do is open up all waters to this slaughter if a tournament falls on opening day.just think how many others (tournament directors)would try this very same idea,things like this spread like wild fire.

im sad to say being from belleville and fishing quinte just about every day ive seen a select few anglers and most are tournament anglers (not all but a few)fishing bass out of season funny thing is these lads are the fist ones to complain about this practice ,too faced poachers i'd say.

just Hawgs own 2 cents

HH be more specific. What should not be allowed? Pre-fishing for any tournament? Or just for this one?

Lets realize that:

1) The quebec ministry did not post the opening day change to the regulations until after the B1 Tournament directors announced the tournament. They based the dates on the season opening at the same time as the previous year.

Once they found out of the change they implemented rules to prevent pre-fishing. The rule was you would not be allowed on the water with ANY fishing rod in your boat before the season opened. Realizing that this would be almost unenforcible. they opted to petition the Quebec ministry to move the opening day back to WHERE IT WAS THE PREVIOUS YEAR!

As a compromise the Ministry decided to allow a CATCH AND RELEASE season before opening day on the tournament waters. NOT CATCH AND KEEP season.

It is important to note that all ministries adjust rulings on an ad hoc basis. Although Marc Thorpe would like everyone to believe that some amiss in the petition, he has no proof nor does he have anything to back up his own statements about breaking the law (pre-fishing) harm to the fisheries etc.

(Marc you have never posted any findings, studies, reports or even psychic readings as to why this change is bad and have consistently refused to do so).

Tournaments when run properly do not "massacre" the fisheries any more than the Joe Weekender who goes out and catches his/her limit and then some, and consumes them.

If you look at the results from last year for the renegade series - out of 2,238 bass caught - 33 were brought in dead.

Can you imagine all the Joe Weekenders who would have kept their limits? Which is 6 fish each not 5 per team. Is there mortality after release? Yes

How many Joe Weekenders know the proper release techniques.
How many of fish the Joe Weekenders release die as well?

I do not know nor do I have any studies to offer proof so I won't speculate.

Now as for fishing bass out of season can you prove that they are actually targeting bass?
How do you know they are tournament anglers?

Is it because they are in a bass boat?

Are you assuming that they must be fishing for bass and fish tournaments?

I have seen many guys in aluminum rigs throwing spinnerbaits in the weeds (pre bass season) claiming they were pike fishing. Nobody bothers them. Yet when a bass boat floats by its "hey bass season isn't open yet - butthole!" regardless if they are fishing or not.

Fair? no!

Reality - Yes!

all i meant was prefishing before the season opens for a tournament or just fun fishing..should not be allowed.

Hawg
p.s-thanks for the above info....

[Geos]

...
Again..we're talking about 4 days of Catch and Release here.

Charles
www.CharlesSim.com

I just looking for someone to clarify, is the "extra" 4 days now open to anglers only catch and release?

[Charles_Sim]

Geos, It always has been for everyone.

Marc,

"I have to admit,I am confused about your position,your against OOS fishing but not against having the season opened prematurely to regs established by the QMNR. "

Not sure what you're confused about, There are two different issues there... I support following fishing regulations, and I support the reform of fishing regulations. The more fishing opourtunities the better.

I love that most of New York and Vermont have C&R seasons, and that Erie has a trophy Bass season... I do hope that one day both Ontario and Quebec implement something similar.

Whatever happens... happens. Personally I hope you don't succeed in your mission to squash this reform, but either way I'll abid by the regulations, as always.

But for now I have to shift my focus to upcoming events on Cheasapeak and lake Norman.

All the best,
Charles Sim
www.CharlesSim.com

[Muskie4L]

I think the air has been cleared here as much as it can be. I'm going to lock this so we can move on.