Hey guys!
I'm thinking of hitting up the Salmon and/or Chateaugay Rivers this weekend and I'm curious if anyone has any reports from that area over the past few weeks?
I'll probably start off upstream of Malone along River Road.
Thanks!
Salmon / Chateaugay Reports
A few of us posted fairly frequently on the Salmon and the Chateauguay during the last two seasons. I have been fishing them about as much this season as the last two, and I believe that some of the others have, too. For some reason, though, we have just not been posting reports.
I was last down to the Salmon on or about 20 August. My friend and I fished in the lower Flat Rock area. (For those who do not know, this is downriver from the city of Malone and in the area of a road of the same name). I recall the water temperature being about 64F. I have been conscious of not fishing when the water is too hot, especially during July and August. This year, unlike the past couple, it was usually in the sixties.
This area of the Salmon this year has fished as well generally as in the past couple of years. I have also fished once or twice along River Road upriver of Malone and have found the fishing to be quite decent.
I have fished the Chateauguay less than the Salmon this year, and I have also fished the Chateauguay less this year than in the past couple of years. I am forming a bit of prejudice against it. The water is a bit warmer and the quantity of fish seems much lower than the Salmon. When I do go to the Chateaugay, it is usually fairly far downriver in respect of the various road access points. Some say that the Chateaugay shuts down after 8:00 a.m. in this section, and that would conform with my experience. I am not good at doing early mornings, and this probably colours my views of the Chateaugay. There are places on the Salmon where the time of day seems to make little or no difference.
I hope others will post about their recent experiences or opinions of these rivers.
I was last down to the Salmon on or about 20 August. My friend and I fished in the lower Flat Rock area. (For those who do not know, this is downriver from the city of Malone and in the area of a road of the same name). I recall the water temperature being about 64F. I have been conscious of not fishing when the water is too hot, especially during July and August. This year, unlike the past couple, it was usually in the sixties.
This area of the Salmon this year has fished as well generally as in the past couple of years. I have also fished once or twice along River Road upriver of Malone and have found the fishing to be quite decent.
I have fished the Chateauguay less than the Salmon this year, and I have also fished the Chateauguay less this year than in the past couple of years. I am forming a bit of prejudice against it. The water is a bit warmer and the quantity of fish seems much lower than the Salmon. When I do go to the Chateaugay, it is usually fairly far downriver in respect of the various road access points. Some say that the Chateaugay shuts down after 8:00 a.m. in this section, and that would conform with my experience. I am not good at doing early mornings, and this probably colours my views of the Chateaugay. There are places on the Salmon where the time of day seems to make little or no difference.
I hope others will post about their recent experiences or opinions of these rivers.
Manfred, I must say, that is one of the best reports I've read it quite awhile. I really appreciate your insight into the Salmon.
I'm actually quite new to fishing this area as I've recently moved to Ottawa from Calgary, so it is great to get some more information on upstate NY. One additional question, from reading lots of NY flyfishing guides and searching HawkTalk extensively, I get the impression many people concentrate on dry fly patterns on the Salmon? Is this the case? Can much luck be had with light nymphing or streamers?
Thanks!
I'm actually quite new to fishing this area as I've recently moved to Ottawa from Calgary, so it is great to get some more information on upstate NY. One additional question, from reading lots of NY flyfishing guides and searching HawkTalk extensively, I get the impression many people concentrate on dry fly patterns on the Salmon? Is this the case? Can much luck be had with light nymphing or streamers?
Thanks!
You can catch plenty of trout in NNY rivers with nymphs, especially stonefly nymphs. Streamers work well to and so do old fashioned swung wet flies, although mainly for smaller trout.
It's just that most streams are perfectly suited to prospecting with a dry fly providing conditions are right. I'd rather fish a dry fly over a weighted nymph any day. The rivers are swift flowing and relatively infertile and so the trout are receptive to anything that looks like food.
If I'm searching for trout I'll almost always start with a dry. I can cover alot more water efficiently with a dry than nymph. If I hit a deep run that just screams big fish lives here then if I don't get any response on a dry I'll try with a nymph.
If you're going to fish NNY streams you should learn about fishing pocket water. September is the best month for dry fly fishing. Conditions are perfect, not many aquatic insects left in the stream so trout are eating anything that falls into the water. No need to be specific with hoppers or crickets etc.. A haystack or bushy parachute pattern is fine. You need to need to be able to see it.......NO DRAG. It should float well but in the film.
Of the few insects left in the river is the Isonychia mayfly. Its nymph looks and swims like a minnow. Its an inch long and dark. Fish a #10 Zug Bug like a streamer with quick short strips around mid stream boulders and use a strong tippet the trout will hit it hard. If you see a big dark mayfly in the air thats what it is. If you catch one you'll see it has chartreuse forelegs. A #10-12 Adams, Grey Wulff etc. works for them
It's just that most streams are perfectly suited to prospecting with a dry fly providing conditions are right. I'd rather fish a dry fly over a weighted nymph any day. The rivers are swift flowing and relatively infertile and so the trout are receptive to anything that looks like food.
If I'm searching for trout I'll almost always start with a dry. I can cover alot more water efficiently with a dry than nymph. If I hit a deep run that just screams big fish lives here then if I don't get any response on a dry I'll try with a nymph.
If you're going to fish NNY streams you should learn about fishing pocket water. September is the best month for dry fly fishing. Conditions are perfect, not many aquatic insects left in the stream so trout are eating anything that falls into the water. No need to be specific with hoppers or crickets etc.. A haystack or bushy parachute pattern is fine. You need to need to be able to see it.......NO DRAG. It should float well but in the film.
Of the few insects left in the river is the Isonychia mayfly. Its nymph looks and swims like a minnow. Its an inch long and dark. Fish a #10 Zug Bug like a streamer with quick short strips around mid stream boulders and use a strong tippet the trout will hit it hard. If you see a big dark mayfly in the air thats what it is. If you catch one you'll see it has chartreuse forelegs. A #10-12 Adams, Grey Wulff etc. works for them
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after fishing the bow river in calgary for many many years i found for browns and rainbows the only fly i ever used was a bead headed prince nymph never had a problem catching them worked like a charm!
Interesting observation. Of the half dozen times I've been down I've caught the vast majority on nymphs because I wasn't getting any surface action. After a while, I just gave up on dries. There was that one brown yesterday that came up to inspect my orange indicator. I'll have to tie up some more dries and give them another go or do some exploring.ganman wrote:You can catch plenty of trout in NNY rivers with nymphs, especially stonefly nymphs. Streamers work well to and so do old fashioned swung wet flies, although mainly for smaller trout.
It's just that most streams are perfectly suited to prospecting with a dry fly providing conditions are right. I'd rather fish a dry fly over a weighted nymph any day. The rivers are swift flowing and relatively infertile and so the trout are receptive to anything that looks like food.
If I'm searching for trout I'll almost always start with a dry. I can cover alot more water efficiently with a dry than nymph. If I hit a deep run that just screams big fish lives here then if I don't get any response on a dry I'll try with a nymph.
If you're going to fish NNY streams you should learn about fishing pocket water. September is the best month for dry fly fishing. Conditions are perfect, not many aquatic insects left in the stream so trout are eating anything that falls into the water. No need to be specific with hoppers or crickets etc.. A haystack or bushy parachute pattern is fine. You need to need to be able to see it.......NO DRAG. It should float well but in the film.
Of the few insects left in the river is the Isonychia mayfly. Its nymph looks and swims like a minnow. Its an inch long and dark. Fish a #10 Zug Bug like a streamer with quick short strips around mid stream boulders and use a strong tippet the trout will hit it hard. If you see a big dark mayfly in the air thats what it is. If you catch one you'll see it has chartreuse forelegs. A #10-12 Adams, Grey Wulff etc. works for them
I echo the stonefly nymphs though. I have a stonefly pattern that is really shiny and refracts a lot of light. I think it helps the fish to find the nymph in the faster water. A light coloured RS2 was also working well yesterday nymphed deep.
One of the popular locations was RAMMED yesterday.
Interesting observation. Of the half dozen times I've been down I've caught the vast majority on nymphs because I wasn't getting any surface action. After a while, I just gave up on dries. There was that one brown yesterday that came up to inspect my orange indicator. I did fish a 12 Butch Caddis for about 45 min close to dusk without luck. I assumed that fish on this river weren't risers. I'll have to tie up some more dries and give them another go or do some exploring.ganman wrote:You can catch plenty of trout in NNY rivers with nymphs, especially stonefly nymphs. Streamers work well to and so do old fashioned swung wet flies, although mainly for smaller trout.
It's just that most streams are perfectly suited to prospecting with a dry fly providing conditions are right. I'd rather fish a dry fly over a weighted nymph any day. The rivers are swift flowing and relatively infertile and so the trout are receptive to anything that looks like food.
If I'm searching for trout I'll almost always start with a dry. I can cover alot more water efficiently with a dry than nymph. If I hit a deep run that just screams big fish lives here then if I don't get any response on a dry I'll try with a nymph.
If you're going to fish NNY streams you should learn about fishing pocket water. September is the best month for dry fly fishing. Conditions are perfect, not many aquatic insects left in the stream so trout are eating anything that falls into the water. No need to be specific with hoppers or crickets etc.. A haystack or bushy parachute pattern is fine. You need to need to be able to see it.......NO DRAG. It should float well but in the film.
Of the few insects left in the river is the Isonychia mayfly. Its nymph looks and swims like a minnow. Its an inch long and dark. Fish a #10 Zug Bug like a streamer with quick short strips around mid stream boulders and use a strong tippet the trout will hit it hard. If you see a big dark mayfly in the air thats what it is. If you catch one you'll see it has chartreuse forelegs. A #10-12 Adams, Grey Wulff etc. works for them
I echo the stonefly nymphs though. I have a stonefly pattern that is really shiny and refracts a lot of light. I think it helps the fish to find the nymph in the faster water. A light coloured RS2 was also working well yesterday nymphed deep.
One of the popular locations down in NY was RAMMED yesterday at dusk.
I didn't see a single ISO shuck on the bank anywhere. Not sure if they've come and gone or not come yet. Had minimal luck on ISO type nymphs.
If trout in the Adirondacks didn't hit dry flies we would have no Ausable Wulffs, Haystacks, Usuals ......heck we would have no Wulff flies because it was a September Isonychia hatch that prompted Lee Wulff to construct his first Wulff, the Grey Wulff back in 1932.
What kind of water are you fishing? If I'm prospecting I normally avoid pools and flats and stick to riffles and pocket water. I go back to the pools and flats if there is a hatch. Are you getting drag free drifts?
It used to be assumed Isonychia's only swam to a boulder or rock to emerge but they will emerge from the stream the way other mayflies do. Years ago you would see rocks covered with nymph husks. You see alot less of that now. I'm not sure why that is the case but the nymph does swim like a minnow.
With the recent spell of hot weather the flies are likely hatching in the evening. If it gets cool they will hatch during the day.
In my log book from the third Sat. in September of 1994 on a trip to the Black River there was a frost in the morning and the water was cold and the fishing slow. By noon the weather had warmed and the day was still and sunny. The Iso's started coming off and did so until 5:00. That afternoon trout rose freely and I must have caught 50. It seemed behind every boulder, run or pocket there was a trout ready to pounce. Back then they only stocked 8-10"ers and some of these were 12-16" wild beauties.
What kind of water are you fishing? If I'm prospecting I normally avoid pools and flats and stick to riffles and pocket water. I go back to the pools and flats if there is a hatch. Are you getting drag free drifts?
It used to be assumed Isonychia's only swam to a boulder or rock to emerge but they will emerge from the stream the way other mayflies do. Years ago you would see rocks covered with nymph husks. You see alot less of that now. I'm not sure why that is the case but the nymph does swim like a minnow.
With the recent spell of hot weather the flies are likely hatching in the evening. If it gets cool they will hatch during the day.
In my log book from the third Sat. in September of 1994 on a trip to the Black River there was a frost in the morning and the water was cold and the fishing slow. By noon the weather had warmed and the day was still and sunny. The Iso's started coming off and did so until 5:00. That afternoon trout rose freely and I must have caught 50. It seemed behind every boulder, run or pocket there was a trout ready to pounce. Back then they only stocked 8-10"ers and some of these were 12-16" wild beauties.
True enough.ganman wrote:If trout in the Adirondacks didn't hit dry flies we would have no Ausable Wulffs, Haystacks, Usuals ......heck we would have no Wulff flies because it was a September Isonychia hatch that prompted Lee Wulff to construct his first Wulff, the Grey Wulff back in 1932.
Now that you mention it, I target water that is exactly opposite to you. I skip the shallow riffles choosing to target on deeper pocket water, deeper runs and pools. I'm getting pretty close to drag free drifts although contrary to popular belief, I don't believe it is possible for a 100% drag free drift on the majority of water when nymphing due to the speed differential of surface water versus bottom water.ganman wrote: What kind of water are you fishing? If I'm prospecting I normally avoid pools and flats and stick to riffles and pocket water. I go back to the pools and flats if there is a hatch. Are you getting drag free drifts?
I've read that some ISO's can hatch mid stream although I got out with Paul last year in NY and we saw LOTS of ISO shucks on the rocks in different locations (photos: Paul and Rich).ganman wrote: It used to be assumed Isonychia's only swam to a boulder or rock to emerge but they will emerge from the stream the way other mayflies do. Years ago you would see rocks covered with nymph husks. You see alot less of that now. I'm not sure why that is the case but the nymph does swim like a minnow.
The reading I've done so far indicates that ISOs tend to hatch midday which is consistent with your observation.ganman wrote: In my log book from the third Sat. in September of 1994 on a trip to the Black River there was a frost in the morning and the water was cold and the fishing slow. By noon the weather had warmed and the day was still and sunny. The Iso's started coming off and did so until 5:00. That afternoon trout rose freely and I must have caught 50. It seemed behind every boulder, run or pocket there was a trout ready to pounce. Back then they only stocked 8-10"ers and some of these were 12-16" wild beauties.
It's interesting that differing bodies of water have their nuances. Fishing the rocky mountains for 4 years, the fish at this time of year prefer streamers. The water is too cold (and low nutrient) to go chasing the odd caddis and fishing a #4 bugger in the deep over-wintering holes produces really well. You can have sunny days when they'll rise for periods but it is not the norm.
On the NY rivers I've been on, I see fish rise for naturals very infrequently. When I was down on Sunday, I didn't see a single rise all day from 10 to 6. I'd bet that you're fishing beats where the fish are looking up more often. Likely the insect adult stage (or emergence) is a more significant food source.
Regardless, I'll defer to your experience and fish the odd riffle with some dries in a caddis/mayfly/terrestrial pattern. I have been itching to fish the Hopper Juans I've tied up recently.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
wongrs I think I know where our thinking seperates. You're right in all the years I have fished the Salmon, other than a white fly hatch and frustrating flying ants I never saw much of one. Compared to other rivers like the Saranac, Ausable, Black and West Canada - that have good hatches, its pretty sparse.
The section of the Salmon I fish mainly is a spot were I never see anyone other than myself fishing it. Very few if any on the trout are stocked and a fair number are brookies. There is an abundance of pockets and feeding lanes and I can cover the water much quicker with a dry. Geez don't fish those shallow riffles on the Salmon, they're about as deep as Jessica Simpson.
The section of the Salmon I fish mainly is a spot were I never see anyone other than myself fishing it. Very few if any on the trout are stocked and a fair number are brookies. There is an abundance of pockets and feeding lanes and I can cover the water much quicker with a dry. Geez don't fish those shallow riffles on the Salmon, they're about as deep as Jessica Simpson.
thanks ganman. i was speaking with a guy from DEC yesterday who had echoed similar info to your last post. he too was a fisherman and we chatted a surprisingly long time about fishing.
the reason i called DEC was to confirm PFR easements (public fishing rights) and where a guy can/can't fish in the state. in areas without PFRs, the landowner owns the streambed to the half way point of the water. you are therefore trespassing and must leave immediately if requested.
the reason i called DEC was to confirm PFR easements (public fishing rights) and where a guy can/can't fish in the state. in areas without PFRs, the landowner owns the streambed to the half way point of the water. you are therefore trespassing and must leave immediately if requested.
Since my first post a few weeks ago I've hit up the Salmon a few times. I've had some pretty good luck in the pocket water, and along some of the structure near the banks, with an Ausable Wulff and a Stimulator.
The water level hasn't been that bad, and I must say every time I head down there I don't see a single other fisherman. As my first summer in Ottawa wraps up, I'm pleased to have found a trout fishery that isn't too much of a drive from Ottawa. I'm thinking of setting up a day fishing with Rich Garfield of Fly Fish the Adirondack at the start of next season to learn some more secrets, has anyone had any experience with him?
Finally, just to double check with you guys, that trout season on the Salmon lasts until Oct. 15? After that, I plan on concentrating on the other Salmon for steelhead over the winter. Is there much of a following from the Ottawa area down there? I did a small reconnaissance drive down there earlier in the week and the trip didn't see too lengthy.
The water level hasn't been that bad, and I must say every time I head down there I don't see a single other fisherman. As my first summer in Ottawa wraps up, I'm pleased to have found a trout fishery that isn't too much of a drive from Ottawa. I'm thinking of setting up a day fishing with Rich Garfield of Fly Fish the Adirondack at the start of next season to learn some more secrets, has anyone had any experience with him?
Finally, just to double check with you guys, that trout season on the Salmon lasts until Oct. 15? After that, I plan on concentrating on the other Salmon for steelhead over the winter. Is there much of a following from the Ottawa area down there? I did a small reconnaissance drive down there earlier in the week and the trip didn't see too lengthy.