Steve: Unless you have your boat listed on your home policy and are paying the extra premium to insure liab. to your boat it is not covered. Liability on a homeowners policy is limited to your home property only.*** CORRECTED THIS BELOW AS I DID NOT TYPE WHAT MY MIND WAS THINKING***steve-hamilton wrote:I fully agree liability insurance is often overlooked, however, regarding the above - homeowner's insurance (so long as you have it) will provide coverage against your legal liability arising out of your personal actions which may cause harm to others.I think liability insurances is often overlooked by boaters in general. Especially those who think their boat isn't worth insuring because of it's value.
Even if you think you're boat isn't worth much consider being sued because you didn't see that skier in the water... or didn't see that cruiser coming which you ran into...
1 mill, 2 mill, 5 mill whatever you get make sure you all have something for 2010.. just in case!
A little off topic but worth saying regardless!
becoming a guide
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almontefisher
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Last edited by almontefisher on Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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West Lake Willows
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Landshark,
From what I understand about the US system we are getting there, but your system is much cleaner and better run. Right now Canada is just getting into making charter captains comply to small vessel regulations and they are all over the place.
Right now the courses you need to take are all over the place at different times. It would be really nice if it was one 60 hour course. I hope they get to that..
Its been said: If you "fish to live" your screwed, but if you "live to fish" you'll be fine. As you said Landshark in most cases you get a boat and equipment you wouldn't otherwise afford.
As for Liability, I recall being told to carry 1 million/client with a cap but I can't remember where that cap is. I carry 4 million.
Scott
From what I understand about the US system we are getting there, but your system is much cleaner and better run. Right now Canada is just getting into making charter captains comply to small vessel regulations and they are all over the place.
Right now the courses you need to take are all over the place at different times. It would be really nice if it was one 60 hour course. I hope they get to that..
Its been said: If you "fish to live" your screwed, but if you "live to fish" you'll be fine. As you said Landshark in most cases you get a boat and equipment you wouldn't otherwise afford.
As for Liability, I recall being told to carry 1 million/client with a cap but I can't remember where that cap is. I carry 4 million.
Scott
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almontefisher
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I think I may grab a bunch of info on liability insurance for everyone so they can understand this concept better...It seems people have bits and peices thrown together from this place and that and do not fully understand the impact this could have on your business, personal, and family. I really want to make sure everyone knows what they need and why they need it. Give me a week and I will post an article for everyone. If you want to read it good, if not so be it but I think we all need to understand what it is and how it works.
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marc Thorpe
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If I may offer some insight as I have been working with Transport Canada for years.
You need Med A3 /first response at sea (FumA3)
You need VHF licensing
you need first aid, (at one time it was first aid at sea)
As of Nov 2009 SVOP for operations in 2010
One must posses the Commercial operators license on board at all times
Liability insurance is set at minimum 2 million and it cannot be combined with house insurance
You need Commercial passenger liability insurance
A yearly inspection,there after a self yearly inspection is accepted
I do the inspection with TC agent,simply in case of oversight
The agent will see that all needed equipment and free board are conform to regulatory standards or list what must be rectified.
Its not complicated but its now regulated
Yes there is a difference between Guiding on lake Ontario and inland waters
Any person who do not comply,face stiff penalties and fines for not having required courses and equipment and being compliant and could face seizure of their boats if not compliant.
Any person without federal requirements could see their insurance liability VOID by their insurer in case of an incident.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/mediaroom/infos ... y-5370.htm
http://www.tc.gc.ca/marinesafety/debs/s ... upto15.htm
http://search-recherche.tc.gc.ca/search ... essel&s=10
Its a federal law and federal jurisdiction and is applied across Canada in Every Province
Over time there will be enforcement,Fear not they have an entire listing of legal and "shadow" operators.
Some enforcement officers from other branches of enforcement are requesting Commercial passenger Vehicle operators info when pulled over for boat inspections.
I suspect in years to come all enforcement offices will ensure the commercial passenger boating act is enforced
Marc Thorpe
You need Med A3 /first response at sea (FumA3)
You need VHF licensing
you need first aid, (at one time it was first aid at sea)
As of Nov 2009 SVOP for operations in 2010
One must posses the Commercial operators license on board at all times
Liability insurance is set at minimum 2 million and it cannot be combined with house insurance
You need Commercial passenger liability insurance
A yearly inspection,there after a self yearly inspection is accepted
I do the inspection with TC agent,simply in case of oversight
The agent will see that all needed equipment and free board are conform to regulatory standards or list what must be rectified.
Its not complicated but its now regulated
Yes there is a difference between Guiding on lake Ontario and inland waters
Any person who do not comply,face stiff penalties and fines for not having required courses and equipment and being compliant and could face seizure of their boats if not compliant.
Any person without federal requirements could see their insurance liability VOID by their insurer in case of an incident.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/mediaroom/infos ... y-5370.htm
http://www.tc.gc.ca/marinesafety/debs/s ... upto15.htm
http://search-recherche.tc.gc.ca/search ... essel&s=10
Its a federal law and federal jurisdiction and is applied across Canada in Every Province
Over time there will be enforcement,Fear not they have an entire listing of legal and "shadow" operators.
Some enforcement officers from other branches of enforcement are requesting Commercial passenger Vehicle operators info when pulled over for boat inspections.
I suspect in years to come all enforcement offices will ensure the commercial passenger boating act is enforced
Marc Thorpe
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West Lake Willows
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- Location: Picton, Ontario
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Marc,
Thank you for the reply and it is great have someone with your qualifications weigh in.
Do you have any insight on the requirement of float suits in cold water? I have heard rumblings and all kinds of rumours but it would be nice to have your insight. I know some operators are carrying survival blankets with heat tabs and say this is compliant. Is this the case?
Thank you for your time.
Scott
Thank you for the reply and it is great have someone with your qualifications weigh in.
Do you have any insight on the requirement of float suits in cold water? I have heard rumblings and all kinds of rumours but it would be nice to have your insight. I know some operators are carrying survival blankets with heat tabs and say this is compliant. Is this the case?
Thank you for your time.
Scott
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steve-hamilton
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almontefisher
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Sorry Steve I miss worded it...Good catch...what I meant to say was it is limited to your home policy property liab limits only unless it is scheduled to your boat, seasonal etc.steve-hamilton wrote:"Liability on a homeowners policy is limited to your home property only."
That is not correct. Personal liability is not restricted to your premises.
Basically you do have coverage anywhere in the world If the insured or a member of the insured’s family is legally responsible for unintentional bodily injury or property damage to a third party, they could incur a financial loss which could seriously affect the security and future plans of the family. If the family member who is responsible for the bodily injury or property damage is the owner or joint owner of the family home, they could lose all the family’s savings and, in addition, find themselves in debt for the rest of their life.
To protect against this, the client has legal liability which provides coverage anywhere in the world, for unintentional bodily injury or property damage arising from the actions of the insured.
So this means that general liability of slander etc is not covered. It has to be as it states above. For property damage or injury only. If you are a guide then the home policy does not cover anything...It would have to be covered under a CGL or Commercial General Liability policy. And again unless it is scheduled in your declaration your boat etc does not have liab coverage thru your home policy.
[/u]
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marc Thorpe
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Hi Scott,from my understanding,there will be no changes till 2012
One of the changes is having a boat licensed that will begin with " C" which enter in effect in 2012.
as for flotation suites,some talk about fall or cold water periods and in excess of 2 miles from shore.
Prob is "survival suites" that I am aware that were discussed, are not TC approved as of yet, same does for PFD's, I think this may be were they are heading,they are not even sure what is appropriate and safe for this sort of business.
They do support the use and providing them to clients/guest on board during cold water periods.
For the Sea Survival suite,I dont see them imposing such an expensive Item in regards to this sort of activity.
One thing that has a play on this sort of regulation and whether clients must wear a "Life vest" is the amount of free board.
With 36 inch free board ,guest or clients do not have to wear "Life Vest"
Guest's and clients can wear PFD,as long as the TC approved life vest for the proper amount of people is on board.
Hopes this helps
marc
One of the changes is having a boat licensed that will begin with " C" which enter in effect in 2012.
as for flotation suites,some talk about fall or cold water periods and in excess of 2 miles from shore.
Prob is "survival suites" that I am aware that were discussed, are not TC approved as of yet, same does for PFD's, I think this may be were they are heading,they are not even sure what is appropriate and safe for this sort of business.
They do support the use and providing them to clients/guest on board during cold water periods.
For the Sea Survival suite,I dont see them imposing such an expensive Item in regards to this sort of activity.
One thing that has a play on this sort of regulation and whether clients must wear a "Life vest" is the amount of free board.
With 36 inch free board ,guest or clients do not have to wear "Life Vest"
Guest's and clients can wear PFD,as long as the TC approved life vest for the proper amount of people is on board.
Hopes this helps
marc
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Trophymuskie
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Thanks for chiming in Landshark.
I was just told tonight that I would need to take the SVOP course. I was told it was for the guides not requirering the limited master certification. I have it in front of me " required by everyone operating a commercial vessel except those that require and have a master limited certificate" it's part of my compliance froms from the OSGA. I will definitely look into it as it's not available close by right now and if it's that long and expensive it better be a requirement before I go through those hoops.
I also know that guides operating on inland waters do not require the RROC-M or VHS radio course.
I also only participate in the self inspection program, I keep getting new boats every few year which helps.
I don't see the survival suit thing working out, what are we to do carry 4 of each size just in case? this can get very expensive. A life jacket will fit a 12 year old to a 70++ year old, where as a survival suit has to be somewhat fited to the person.
Just to think when I started 10 years ago not much was required to guide legaly.
Richard Collin
I was just told tonight that I would need to take the SVOP course. I was told it was for the guides not requirering the limited master certification. I have it in front of me " required by everyone operating a commercial vessel except those that require and have a master limited certificate" it's part of my compliance froms from the OSGA. I will definitely look into it as it's not available close by right now and if it's that long and expensive it better be a requirement before I go through those hoops.
I also know that guides operating on inland waters do not require the RROC-M or VHS radio course.
I also only participate in the self inspection program, I keep getting new boats every few year which helps.
I don't see the survival suit thing working out, what are we to do carry 4 of each size just in case? this can get very expensive. A life jacket will fit a 12 year old to a 70++ year old, where as a survival suit has to be somewhat fited to the person.
Just to think when I started 10 years ago not much was required to guide legaly.
Richard Collin
Catch and release them all
Richard Collin
Richard Collin
i would like to no what would takje in paper work and insurance for the same thing but in kayaks. touring and fishing.mmmmmmm???
good tread.
there is a lot more toit for a real guide then poeple taught...if you want to be fully legal i am talking about.
dont if its the same thing for guides that work for an outfiter up north as an example...or let say tiny lakes for fly fishing outfiters and so on.
joco
good tread.
there is a lot more toit for a real guide then poeple taught...if you want to be fully legal i am talking about.
dont if its the same thing for guides that work for an outfiter up north as an example...or let say tiny lakes for fly fishing outfiters and so on.
joco
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marc Thorpe
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Joco not sure about Kayaks,I suggest inquiring with TC
Regarding Lodges,they will have to be compliant in time also,currently the main focus is on navigational waters.
Laws have been in effect since 1998 if I am not mistaken,but the feds have acquired jurisdiction and collaborated works from provinces in the past 5-6 years.
It is currently a work and adaptation in progress
I strongly recommend anyone interested should work with his local agent
This will only lead to better relationship and understanding of what the requirements needed are and changes that will occur in the future.
Whether you own or are sponsored like many in the industry
As far as felony charges and what not's,this is not an application for a captains license,these courses do not and are not compared to obtaining a captain license.To obtain a captain's license one must follow similar procedures as in the U.S.A and not posses a "felony" or "criminal" charge or "conviction "along with passing physicals.
hope this helps
marc
Regarding Lodges,they will have to be compliant in time also,currently the main focus is on navigational waters.
Laws have been in effect since 1998 if I am not mistaken,but the feds have acquired jurisdiction and collaborated works from provinces in the past 5-6 years.
It is currently a work and adaptation in progress
I strongly recommend anyone interested should work with his local agent
This will only lead to better relationship and understanding of what the requirements needed are and changes that will occur in the future.
Whether you own or are sponsored like many in the industry
As far as felony charges and what not's,this is not an application for a captains license,these courses do not and are not compared to obtaining a captain license.To obtain a captain's license one must follow similar procedures as in the U.S.A and not posses a "felony" or "criminal" charge or "conviction "along with passing physicals.
hope this helps
marc
Last edited by marc Thorpe on Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
there stuff that been said in here that mabe could have been not said...dont why drugs have come into this.
an we could talk about beers or alcool and so on.
the question is about becoming a guide...
personaly what a guide do in is spare time is not are buisenes..i hired a guide to get fish and lurne frome him about fishing . and tricks.
you could have a guy that was 10 years ind a pen and i would still not care what he did.unles he was inside to having kill a few fishing client..
then i might be a bit more ???.
lets get back to the main topic.......
becoming a guide what it takes.
joco
an we could talk about beers or alcool and so on.
the question is about becoming a guide...
personaly what a guide do in is spare time is not are buisenes..i hired a guide to get fish and lurne frome him about fishing . and tricks.
you could have a guy that was 10 years ind a pen and i would still not care what he did.unles he was inside to having kill a few fishing client..
then i might be a bit more ???.lets get back to the main topic.......
becoming a guide what it takes.
joco
Last edited by joco on Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
!!!Joco,herb and good guiding isn't the point,the point is that herb and alcohol and operating a commercial vehicle or vessel are the point. Mandatory drug testing is an actual prerequisite to obtaining and maintaining a commercial driver or captains license,in the USA. You can't even get a job with any legit carrier or charter boat outfit w/out passing a drug test. When I ran charter boats in the USA,for a living,the USCG requirements were more like an apprenticeship program,you needed x number of documented hours at sea,under a licensed captain,and pass a written test,. The license required, back in the 70's and 80's was a "six pack",which meant you were able to captain a vessel with up to six passengers aboard.Most charter boats in florida at the time were twin engined sport fisherman models in the 42-53' length. Of course,things have surely changed,and things required to be licensed are more difficult. back then,there were no requirements for inland lakes,only offshore. My point is that Canada has realized the need for strichter compliance for operators,of commercial vessels,just like commercial truck drivers,they are a few years behind the USCG requirements.