2013 Kemptville stocking report

[Mike P]

I agree about the importance of reporting to the MNR ones angling experiences on these lakes, good and bad. With-out info from us the angler's, they really have very little to go on. A lot of lack of information can be changed by angler's ourselves.
I didn't live here " back in the day" but I have been fishing in the hills for over 20 years. I've never considered it to be consistency great but it does have it's days, to me that's trout fishing. I don't fish the same lakes I did 20 years ago. Pressure has definitely affected some lakes and the " miniscule percentage of angler's" has grown quite large over the past 20 years. Enough people using this area to explain any costs of stocking, I'd like to see some more regulations up there though. To me the closing of lakes on a rotation bias is a good one, also size limit would help
With less and less money going to the MNR and lack of reports from angler's fishing this could be how our stocking continues to look.
RJ, there is more natural reproduction going on in those hills than one might think { fish related } not a lot, but there is some.

[smitty55]

For those interested here's a link to the Bancroft/Mazinaw stocking lists. A lot more lakes on there that I'm familiar with.
151 Lakes total: Lakers-17, Brookies-73, Splake-30, Rainbows-28, Browns-3. That's not too bad either. Plus there are some lakes like Mosque which has a large cottage population and still is productive. That's not a miniscule amount of fishermen by any means.
I never realized the importance of angler surveys, but when you hear of lakes being dropped off the stocking list because of no angler returns it reinforces the need to do so, even if fishing was poor. We have to do our part to help out and have our voices heard before it's too late.

http://www.bancroftstewardship.ca/userf ... aw2013.pdf

Cheers

[RJ]

That's not a miniscule amount of fishermen by any means.
I never realized the importance of angler surveys, but when you hear of lakes being dropped off the stocking list because of no angler returns it reinforces the need to do so, even if fishing was poor. We have to do our part to help out and have our voices heard before it's too late.

http://www.bancroftstewardship.ca/userf ... aw2013.pdf

By miniscule I mean it's VERY small percentage of all anglers who actually even attempt to go into these lakes.

After what I experienced last weekend I know these lakes have the ability to produce, with improved regulations it could happen but I'm highly skeptical it'll ever happen. The reg changes would fly in the face of the stocking programs mandates at the provincial level, so making those changes would require a complete 180 from where we are now.

RJ

[rustyhook]

Well I think this entire area is very much neglected. If the mnr increased stocking to previous levels or more it could be great again. Certain areas just don't get the fact that more and better fishing opportunities brings more revenue to the entire region (guilding services, retail, boat rental and sales, hotel rental, the list is huge). Look at the Great Lakes, they pump millions into it with Mnr and also local groups who raise money and work with the mnr to stock more. We just don't have people that understand the value of our region. The stocking of lakes every other year is not working and the $$$ are going to those area's that have a "plan".

[Randy L]

The area north of Ompah was pretty much my playground in the 70's, 80's & early 90's. I fished and hunted it extensively. Have seen many changes good and bad...mostly bad in my opinion. I don't get up that way near enough anymore but will be trying to change that in the future. A lot of the little 'gems that exist in the area were made very accessible through logging and the advent of ATVs and therefore the fishing tailed off due to over harvest of the newly stocked and existing holdover trout. There is still decent fishing when you hit anyone of those lakes at the right time; as many of you have said. Another problem that occurred in the area was the dumping of unused minnows into lakes. An example is Granite Lake that used to be a good brookie lake until perch were introduced. The Ministry still tried to stock brookies but they couldn't compete with the voracious perch hence they started stocking splake. By the way, splake love snacking on perch! There are still a small number of lakes in the area that you will not find on any stocking list that hold brookies.

Solutions to the problem of getting so-so fishing to be excellent fishing are many and not easy to enforce. More stocking is not a solution as many of the lakes are already stocked to their viable capacity. Banning live bait fish, lower limits, minimum length limit and rotating closures on select lakes would all make the fishing in this area much more productive and give an angler a chance at a true trophy. It all comes down to enactment and then enforcement of such policies.

I could go on and on but in the end we all know that for the foreseeable future that what exists will continue to exist because the wheels of the government are very slow to turn when it comes to natural resources; unless it is to put money in their pockets!

[RJ]

Solutions to the problem of getting so-so fishing to be excellent fishing are many and not easy to enforce. More stocking is not a solution as many of the lakes are already stocked to their viable capacity. Banning live bait fish, lower limits, minimum length limit and rotating closures on select lakes would all make the fishing in this area much more productive and give an angler a chance at a true trophy. It all comes down to enactment and then enforcement of such policies.

Agreed on reg changes making some improvements in the long run towards a "trophy" fishery. What folks need to understand is the province stocks these lakes to create fishing opportunities. They are put and take by design. From the provinces perspective it isn't to create trophy fisheries, it was never designed to do so.

I could go on and on but in the end we all know that for the foreseeable future that what exists will continue to exist because the wheels of the government are very slow to turn when it comes to natural resources; unless it is to put money in their pockets!

I'd debate this 100%. Thru the FMZ panels we've seen some changes come down the pipe very quick. The walleye regs change to the new slot were in place within a year from start to finish. That new Bass reg that saw you fishing Bass a week earlier last year was pushed thru in less than a year. All these reg changes were done at the zone level. Not sure how those changes put any money in the gov't's pockets......

RJ

[smitty55]

RJ I saw those beauty Rainbows you guys nailed on one of those "hills" lakes. Gorgeous fish. It just proves what I've been saying that it's not all doom and gloom. I was actually quite surprised you didn't post that trip on here. Maybe because you didn't want to contradict yourself after posting this...

It's never been GREAT. I've spent about 20 days up there in my life and it would be a stretch to say the fishing is even "decent".

I would say you had GREAT fishing there. I hope you sent in a report.
I also think you'd be surprised at how many people do actually get back into some of those lakes. With all the logging going on access is much easier now to many lakes than it used to be. On the other hand, some lakes that I used to be able to get my 4x4 in to are now strictly atv trails.
And no offense Rob, but if you've only been up there 20 times in your life it hardly qualifies you as an expert, so I'm not sure what your opinions are based on. I hope it's not just Bobfly lol. IMO he is too far the other way.
I'm not saying that changes aren't needed to improve things. Not likely though for the put and take trout program like Randy said. But there are still many beautiful lakes that offer a very satisfying fishing experience for people who want to leave concrete behind and enjoy some solitude and hopefully catch some nice trout as a bonus. Just because not as many fishermen do this as bass fishermen or the great lakes fishery doesn't make it any less important. Personally I'll take one of our back lakes trout like RJ caught any day over those lake O steelhead that aren't even good eating.

Cheers

[Randy L]

Rob; I in no way am trying to take away from the great work that the FMZ panels have accomplished and will accomplish in the future but the extended bass season has been lobbied for, for many years. It's a good thing for our warmer waters but I fear that the St. Lawrence fishery will suffer because of it. Many of the bass caught this year during the "early season" were spawn and pre-spawn fish. Even with the old season a lot of bass were still spawning or guarding nests. I also like the new walleye regs; the walleye fishery in Eastern Ontario overall has been in trouble for a long time. What I was getting at is changes that cost the gov't money will take a very long time or never happen. For instance; when in the near future do you see the addition of more enforcement officers for our fish and wildlife regs or even monies made available to our existing officers to aid in doing their jobs.

As for the hills; I know that it is geared as put and take but who eats a hatchery fish that hasn't been in the lake more than a year. In the past; I have and they taste like crap. I would just like to see those poor little trout have a chance to spend at least one year in a lake before being harvested. They have more than enough predators to contend with let alone being preyed upon by anglers who can pick them off easy as pie shortly after being stocked. There are "trophies" in the hills already, as you found out recently, but few and far between. It takes a lot of leg work, home work, knowledge and a little luck to get them.

[RJ]

RJ I saw those beauty Rainbows you guys nailed on one of those "hills" lakes. Gorgeous fish. It just proves what I've been saying that it's not all doom and gloom. I was actually quite surprised you didn't post that trip on here. Maybe because you didn't want to contradict yourself after posting this...

It's never been GREAT. I've spent about 20 days up there in my life and it would be a stretch to say the fishing is even "decent".

I would say you had GREAT fishing there. I hope you sent in a report.
I also think you'd be surprised at how many people do actually get back into some of those lakes. With all the logging going on access is much easier now to many lakes than it used to be. On the other hand, some lakes that I used to be able to get my 4x4 in to are now strictly atv trails.
And no offense Rob, but if you've only been up there 20 times in your life it hardly qualifies you as an expert, so I'm not sure what your opinions are based on. I hope it's not just Bobfly lol. IMO he is too far the other way.
I'm not saying that changes aren't needed to improve things. Not likely though for the put and take trout program like Randy said. But there are still many beautiful lakes that offer a very satisfying fishing experience for people who want to leave concrete behind and enjoy some solitude and hopefully catch some nice trout as a bonus. Just because not as many fishermen do this as bass fishermen or the great lakes fishery doesn't make it any less important. Personally I'll take one of our back lakes trout like RJ caught any day over those lake O steelhead that aren't even good eating.

Cheers

Far from contradicting what I've been saying Smitty! It actually re-affirms it. The reason I didn't send in a report Smitty is because those fish are not stocked by the MNR. They're handled by a private club on a private lake that we were lucky enough to be invited to fish. It seems to be possible to create a fishery like we experienced when people don't keep 10 inch fish and even give the lakes a break for a bit. Lots of research would have to take place before you could try to replicate what we experienced.

If someone posted any of those Rainbows on here saying they caught it in a stocked "hills' lake people would freak! Everyone did when Mike P got that biggun a few years ago. It's just such a rarity. We got 9 that day.

I'm far from an expert on the subject nor do I pretend to be, I've heard the state of things from many people who spend a majority of their time in the "Hills". I've always said its a beautiful place to fish but the fishing is nowhere near what it could potentially be.

RJ

[RJ]

For instance; when in the near future do you see the addition of more enforcement officers for our fish and wildlife regs or even monies made available to our existing officers to aid in doing their jobs.

I always get a kick out of pleas for more enforcement. What do you think they're missing? You guys have a pretty good idea how much I'm on the water and ice and I can count on one hand how many times I've seen something that I would call questionable. I honestly don't think there's a whole pile of poaching/over limits etc. going on. Not that I'm seeing anyways.

RJ

[Jimmy_1]

Very recently I was approached by the MNR while ice fishing.

The only thing that was checked was our licenses.

Not the truck, not the pop-up, not the buckets being sat on etc.

So could he have missed something? I think so!

Not that we had or would have poached or done anything illegal but anytime I have been stopped its simply a license check.
No interest in livewells, looking at whats on the line for a lure etc.

My 2 cents.

[smitty55]

Rob I wasn't aware you were at a private stocked lake as all you said is that it was a "Hills" lake. I should have figured that maybe, seeing as how many big Bows were caught. Must be nice to have it that easy and not have to work for it. Don't take that the wrong way, I would have jumped at the chance too. Those fish were amazing.

Far from contradicting what I've been saying Smitty! It actually re-affirms it.

I don't see how you can say that. You just can't compare a private lake with limited, controlled fishing to a public lake that offers limitless opportunity year round to anyone who wants to fish it. Sure it shows how good a private lake can be and there's no doubt many of our lakes could be much better but as you know that's not how the system is designed to "work". I do think for sure that lakes being contaminated is a major factor on the lack of success in some lakes that used to be good for Speckles and Rainbows. Just look how many of those lakes have been switched to Splake in the last 15 years.

RJ I'm not trying to argue with you. We agree on many points. I'm just trying to keep a more positive outlook on the situation so we don't end up seeing more comments like this...

I didn't realize that this area was in such bad shape. I was hoping to head up there this ice season but I guess I'll look elsewhere for now...

That's not the message that needs to be out there for the younger generation. If people stop taking advantage of our resources, and no reports are coming in to the MNR, then lakes will get dumped, as it's an easy thing to do. It's also a good excuse to save money for an already cash strapped ministry so don't give the number crunchers an easy target.

Here's what I think could help in the way of changes to the area. And cost effective to boot
-Rotating closed seasons on some lakes to allow growth of young fish. Absolutely the best thing to do. 2 years to start even better
-At least a 10" minimum size limit will help every lake from people taking stockers
-I could live with a reduction of possession limits from 5 to 4 or even maybe 3. That also will help all lakes
All of the above will not cost the ministry extra and will benefit the trout fishery over time while still providing a better and somewhat viable fishery

I don't agree at all with closing ice fishing on any small trout lake that is otherwise open. I'm not talking Greys here. That's a different story. There are too many lakes that are mostly accessed in the winter. If the mnr is going to pay for a helicopter to stock the lake they should consider the access to the real hard to get to lakes.

It's a good discussion. The more input the better. Cheers

[RJ]

I don't see how you can say that. You just can't compare a private lake with limited, controlled fishing to a public lake that offers limitless opportunity year round to anyone who wants to fish it. Sure it shows how good a private lake can be and there's no doubt many of our lakes could be much better but as you know that's not how the system is designed to "work".

Absolutely you can compare the two. The lakes have the same make-up and other than fishing pressure they are basically the same. Very rarely are fish kept up in this lake so fish are allowed to thrive. All I'm saying is it's not impossible for it to happen elsewhere, but it won't for the reason I mentioned before. I don't know if there is an answer and we are all talking in circles. The reg changes you suggested as did Mike P would make for a more viable "bigger fish" fishing opportunity but that is not what "PGT" lakes are being stocked for.

It still boggles my mind to hear of people keeping 7-8 inch Trout to take home, but it is what is I guess.

RJ

[TheDon]

I agree with most of Rjs points. I think that the main misconception about fishing the lakes in Calabogie is only good for small fish is because most people only have a good day right after the stocking truck rolls through. I think 12 inches would be a more appropriate size limits based on the growing rates of most of the lakes in the hills. Bait bans would also be beneficial. Look at other good precedents of good trout fishing like Algonquin park and quebec and the bait bans are always in place, it's not a coincidence.

[Randy L]

Rob;
Like I said in my original post this area was my playground for many years. My father belonged to a hunt camp up there and after he passed I hunted out of it as well. I witnessed many infractions in this area over the years ... over limits, too many lines (both summer and winter), out of season fishing, gross neglect of crown land and many other things that would be more suited to OPP jurisdiction. After these lakes are stocked the trout go through a short adjustment stage and then they usually end up in one portion of the lake for a week or so and will eat anything in sight (my observations). During this time they are easy pickings and many people know it and take advantage of it. I know that it is impossible to catch all the people that commit these infractions but a higher presence of officers in the area would probably deter many from committing them. I have probably been checked more in this region by CO's than anywhere else but most of the time it has been during hunting season. They used to have a check point at the dam between Palmerston and Canonto for deer season.
In the end I guess that the region will remain as is and for those that go and fail to catch fish it will be taken off their list of go to spots. I still know a few of the "good" lakes in the region and how to catch the fish in them. I love the beauty of a misty sunrise over the tree tops in the morning as paddling around a lake and sharing it only with loons and osprey. And I will continue to cart out others trash that they leave strewn all over this beautiful area.